Creating An Accessibility Specification for Lubuntu 11.10

Sun May 29 22:58:57 UTC 2011

On Sun, 29 May 2011 01:02:26 -0700
Jonathan Marsden <jmarsden at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On 05/27/2011 09:26 AM, Pia wrote:
> 
> > ..., but in open source, if you have a very small group represented,
> > you have to get your hands dirty first in order to sufficiently
> > understand the situation well enough to come up with good system
> > specifications and a reasonable roadmap in a reasonable time frame.
> > So, what we were doing in discussing details and wanting to actually
> > test a few things was just that and what you originally were 
> > complaining about.  Assessing the situation would allow us to know
> > what we can take from Ubuntu's road map and what has to be adjusted.
> 
> How about sharing Ubuntu's current official accessibility roadmap with
> the Lubuntu developers, as a start?  I note that
> 
>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Links
> 
> does not seem to me to include a pointer to it, at least not by any name
> recognizably similar to "Ubuntu Accessibility Roadmap", which seems an
> unfortunate omission.
> 
> Point us towards it, please, and tell us how far along each current
> Ubuntu variant (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Server) is in implementing
> it, if that is not clear from reading the roadmap itself or related
> documents to which it links.
> 
> Then, we can perhaps be a part of the process of "assessing the
> situation", determining what we can take from Ubuntu's accessibility
> roadmap in creating the Lubuntu equivalent of it.  My suspicion is that
> LXDE itself could need a fair bit of work to use the GTK accessibility
> stuff well enough to be useful -- but that's a total guess, in part
> because I've not seen a Ubuntu-oriented definition of "doing
> accessibility well enough to be useful" yet.
> 
> I suspect that if you and Alan and Phill and Charlie and whoever else
> create a roadmap for Lubuntu accessibility separate from the Lubuntu
> developers, it may not be well accepted by them when it is finally
> presented to them.  Better, surely, to include them (us) in that
> process, from the beginning?
> 
> Reading
> 
>   https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+members#active
> 
> will show you that Lubuntu officially currently has exactly two (2)
> developers!
> 
> Both of them have asked, independently and in different ways, on the
> lubuntu-desktop list, for some kind of definition of what exactly we are
> trying to do to "add accessibility" this cycle.
> 
> If wanting some clarity means "not getting it", then I'd say you are
> 100% correct, by that definition I "don't get it" yet!
> 
> As for specifications and clear definitions etc. being overly formal and
> so unacceptable to you, blueprints and UDS discussion and refinement
> thereof are a standard and expected part of every Ubuntu development
> cycle, for every Ubuntu variant, as I hope you are aware.  Lubuntu is
> not an exception in this regard.  Nor is accessibility.  I have not
> suggested anything different happen for work on accessibility than
> happens for other software development work on Lubuntu.  First, decide
> what work will be done; then, do that work.
> 
> Trying to locate the Ubuntu Accessibility Roadmap that you seem to
> suggest already exists somewhere, I just now did a Google search for
> 
>   ubuntu accessibility roadmap
> 
> and found no clearly definitive document for the Oneiric cycle in the
> first couple of pages of hits.  Can you provide pointers to the
> documentation I have missed?
> 
> From this search, I did find my way to:
> 
> 
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-improving-accessibility-devel-and-info
> 
> which suggests that perhaps this kind of info is not in fact yet
> available, but is perhaps being worked on this cycle, since many parts
> of that spec say "postponed" -- presumably postponed until Oneiric?
> 
> If so, my proposal that we wait one cycle (note: not indefinitely, one
> development cycle!) before commencing Lubuntu accessibility development
> work fits it rather well, doesn't it -- once the spec linked above is
> fully completed, Lubuntu will (I would think) then have easier access to
> the baseline documentation and information needed to make good decisions
> about what to implement to improve its accessibility in the 12.04 cycle.
> 
> I also found
> 
>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/Goals
> 
> which says these are "potential goals"; so not really a clearly defined
> roadmap, at this stage, then.
> 
> Then I found
> 
>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs
> 
> which has links to some specs dating back to Feisty (!), and specs for
> Natty that may or may not have actually been implemented (it doesn't
> say), and links to docs that it says "must be updated".  No clarity on
> Oneiric accessibility status or a roadmap there.  Last edit was around 7
> months ago -- a whole development cycle ago.
> 
> Maybe "everyone" knows where the current official and widely accepted
> Ubuntu Accessibility Roadmap really is, but Julien and I currently do
> not, or we would not be asking for a clear statement of what "adding
> accessibility" is going to take, for Lubuntu.  Please work with us to
> create such a definition, since it apparently does not yet exist.  Or,
> point us directly to it, if it does already exist.
> 
> I remain convinced that what I proposed most likely represents a more
> appropriate and realistic timeframe for accomplishing this work than
> trying to do it in Oneiric in the absence of any specification.  That
> viewpoint is based on personal experience spanning over a
> quarter-century of full time programming, system and network administration.
> 
> If you and your team can demonstrate that useful work on Lubuntu
> accessibility can in fact be added in Oneiric, great -- show us the
> specs for that work, and the people who will implement it!  After all,
> this whole thread was triggered by Phill W. asking for developer help,
> so (at least to the uninitiated!) suggesting or even implying that the
> accessibility team already has clear outline specs, ready for those
> developers who respond to Phill's request to begin working from.
> 
> Your latest response, that in fact the accessibility team still needs
> time to conduct informal experiments before coming up with an outline
> Lubuntu accessibility spec, to my mind only serves to further bolster my
> earlier stated position that the real implementation of this work could
> and probably should be postponed until the 12.04 development cycle.
> Doing that gives you/us time to complete those experiments, or "test a
> few things", and then create useful specifications based on their
> results, which we can then, potentially, develop from.
> 
> For everything except installer accessibility, interim experimental
> packages related to Lubuntu accessibility work can be made available in
> PPAs during the initial test phase, so folks who *really* need it *now*
> could have a way to obtain it early.
> 
> Not entirely incidentally, is there a list of the currently-needed
> Lubuntu-related accessibility experiments or tests somewhere?
> 
> I feel as though you are telling me that I should "just know" all kinds
> of things about accessibility and how it is defined for (L)ubuntu, and
> you seem to suggest that at least one Ubuntu accessibility roadmap
> already exists that is plenty good enough already, so I should not be
> asking for an Lubuntu-oriented roadmap or spec.  Reality is that I don't
> just know those things, so those things need stating, clearly (as in,
> written down, online, such as on a wiki page) -- and I can't even find
> the official Ubuntu accessibility roadmap yet!
> 
> Jonathan
> 

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. Ubuntu Accessibility does
not, in fact, set up any roadmap for any distribution except Ubuntu.
Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Mythbuntu, Edubuntu, etc, all set their own roadmaps
for the distribution they develope. They do not rely on any other team
exept their own to decide what they will do in a cycle.

-- 
Charlie Kravetz 
Linux Registered User Number 425914          [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.           [http://keepingdreams.com]