Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)

[Jude DaShiell]

I'm probably going to pass on this version entirely.  A new version ought 
to come with accessibility improvements beyond gutsy that may be worth 
installing.



On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Mike Reiser wrote:

> I've tried it in a vm on windows and natively on the cd and no luck in eather 
> case.  I think we should wait until it is finally confirmed that the cd works 
> properly.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
> To: "Mike Reiser" <metalhead1009000 at gmail.com>
> Cc: <debee at jfcl.com>; <ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)
>
>
>> I read over on the speakup list of another failed attempt to get the system 
>> upgraded from feisty to gutsy using the CD if memory serves. Apparently not 
>> all the hardware that was on the computer was supported by gutsy so dpkg 
>> went into a Catch #22 situation where further upgrading is blocked because 
>> dpkg couldn't install a package correctly and completely.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Mike Reiser wrote:
>> 
>> >  I share your disappointments, I can't even get the live CD to work here. 
>> >  We've been basically excluded from the testing phase of this version 
>> >  also.
>> > 
>> >  Mike
>> >   ----- Original Message -----
>> >   From: Deborah Norling
>> >   To: ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >   Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:06 PM
>> >   Subject: Disappointed with Gutsy live (long)
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  I like Ubuntu, because as they say, it usually "just works". I run a 
>> >  feisty-based server and helped my sighted husband set up MythTV on a 
>> >  pre-release of Gutsy.
>> > 
>> >  That's why I'm particularly disappointed with the newly released Gutsy 
>> >  live desktop CD. I'm posting this in detail in hopes that I've just 
>> >  missed something crucial.
>> > 
>> >  I played with the Feisty live CD back in March and April of this year, 
>> >  before and after it was released. I never successfully installed Feisty 
>> >  using Orca. I had no trouble at all with Ubuntu (any version) if I stuck 
>> >  to the alternate or server install CD, and installed using the serial 
>> >  port. But the problems I had with Feisty six months ago seem to still be 
>> >  occurring.
>> > 
>> >  Serial ports are disappearing from desktops so I want to be able to use 
>> >  Linux without needing to depend on speakup, hardware synthesizers  or 
>> >  serial consoles. At this point Linux is a hobby; I work as a Windows 
>> >  computer tech for a college. But I hope to eventually ditch Windows and 
>> >  even find employment working in a non-windows environment.
>> > 
>> >  I boot the Gutsy live desktop CD and press F5 for the access options. I 
>> >  press 3 or arrow down to it, to activate Orca. I press ENTER twice and 
>> >  wait a couple of minutes.
>> > 
>> >  Orca runs, and it seems to be working as well as it ever worked. It 
>> >  can't read help, which would seem to be the first thing a new user would 
>> >  want to do, but OpenOffice does work, so I presume it is happy with my 
>> >  hardware.
>> > 
>> >  I run brltty by quitting orca, running gnome-terminal, typing sudo su 
>> >  and on the next command line typing "brltty -bauto -d/dev/ttyUSB0".
>> > 
>> >  Brltty runs, but says the screen is not in text mode. Ok, guess even in 
>> >  a terminal, we aren't in text mode.
>> > 
>> >  It would be nice if this was better documented; the need to run brltty 
>> >  for Braille support, even though Braille support is already checked in 
>> >  the Orca preferences, the fact that even in gnome-terminal the screen is 
>> >  presumably not text-based, and the fact that help isn't working. I can 
>> >  add to the wiki of course. but would beginners know to look there? What 
>> >  about a readme on the CD, which auto-starts in Windows with a screen 
>> >  that's basically advertising for Ubuntu with no real information. Or 
>> >  maybe just a how-to page on the Ubuntu site that covers all this. I am 
>> >  eager to improve the docs, but I have to get it running first and know 
>> >  what I'm doing.
>> > 
>> >  Another disappointment: this is still brltty 3.72. The Orca wiki states 
>> >  that it's better to use 3.8 because it can be compiled with the python 
>> >  bindings -- so why is an older, less effective version on this new live 
>> >  CD?
>> > 
>> >  I run Orca again and now it is communicating with brltty. Python 
>> >  bindings or not, it seems to show everything in Braille just fine.
>> > 
>> >  On my Windows PC, I search the internet for information about installing 
>> >  Gutsy using Orca. Lots of info about conflicts with different versions 
>> >  of portaudio,  forum postings  about how cool it is that Ubuntu is 
>> >  accessible, but no definitive tutorial or how-to on installing. A few 
>> >  days ago, I found lots more information on fixing MythTV problems. It's 
>> >  disappointing that  there is so little information as I do believe 
>> >  strongly in RTFM.
>> > 
>> >  I've already tried the Install icon from the desktop with my husband 
>> >  reading the screen. He confirms that the install runs, but Orca can only 
>> >  echo keystrokes, it reads nothing in the install dialogs.
>> > 
>> >  I locate instructions on installing Feisty with Orca, the same wiki page 
>> >  I've myself contributed to. I follow those instructions, running 
>> >  gnome-terminal, typing sudo su, quitting orca, then running orca again 
>> >  with orca --disable-setup --disable main-window. I next type ubiquity, 
>> >  and the install runs, but still, Orca can't read any of it. Not even in 
>> >  flat review does it see anything.
>> > 
>> >  Between these tests I've done alt-ctrl-backspace to kill the X session, 
>> >  and brltty remains active, informing me that default boot scripts are 
>> >  being run. Each time Orca does automatically load and work with Braille. 
>> >  It crashes once, but I get it back easily, and the system seems 
>> >  generally stable.
>> > 
>> >  At one point, I try running gparted as root, and though ps confirms that 
>> >  gparted is running, Orca can't read its screen either. Is orca only 
>> >  really able to let me access just a few "productivity" apps? I saw that 
>> >  Sun at CSUN had done a session on MythTV with Orca last year, so I'd 
>> >  expected Orca to work with a wide variety of software.
>> > 
>> >  I've tried this on several PCS and I can't figure out if Orca is really 
>> >  this undeveloped or I'm doing something wrong.
>> > 
>> >  I've looked on the wiki at what I presume are the latest release notes; 
>> >  they discuss details like the spell-checker working better in 
>> >  OpenOffice, Firefox 2 vs 3  and the bugginess of acroread. I'm grateful 
>> >  that so much hard work has gone in to working with the Firefox 
>> >  developers and scripting applications like Gaim, But I now just want to 
>> >  read the install dialogs.
>> > 
>> >  In theory, since X is client-server based, since all information is 
>> >  openly available, and because a whole ton of people are working hard on 
>> >  this project, Orca should be miles ahead of Windows screen readers like 
>> >  JAWS. I'm disappointed; I really want to ditch Windows, but how can I if 
>> >  access is this flaky still?
>> > 
>> >   --Debee
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > 
>> > 
>> >   --
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>> >   https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
>> > 
>