Ubuntu 11.10 makes Unity compulsory

[Avi]

On 04/04/11 17:21, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>> Equally, the Union Flag is composed of three crosses, but I don't
>> think the UK and Christianity are at all the same thing. Even if
>> England has its own church.
>
> Really?  I see one, two if the background for the red cross is
> considered to be such on its own.  OTOH, the cross(es) aren't the
> proportions seen in the Christian cross.  Will any cross do?  How about
> an, "X"?
> OTOH, the Israeli flag /is/ the Star of David and its emblem /is/ the
> Menorah.  ...both described as being so.

Well, there's the Cross of St George (the vertical/horizontal red on 
white), the Cross of St Andrew (white on blue) and the Cross of St 
Patrick (diagonal red on white), and each, on their own, are referred to 
by those names.

>>
>>> "The name Israel has historically been used, in common and religious
>>> usage, to refer to the Land of Israel, the biblical Kingdom of
>>> Israel and the entire Jewish nation. According to the Bible, the
>>> name "Israel" was given to the patriarch Jacob (Standard Yisraʾel,
>>> Isrāʾīl; Septuagint Greek: Ἰσραήλ; "persevere with God") after he
>>> successfully wrestled with an angel of God."
>> This isn't specific to Judaism at all -
>
> "The name Israel has historically been used...to refer to...the entire
> Jewish nation."
> That is, the name refers to the 'entire nation of Jews': Judaism.
>
> That (Judaism) is not specific to Judaism?  I fail to see your
> reasoning.

No. Israel as a name for the country isn't specific to Judaism, that's 
what it was called by everyone. Israel as a name for the people predates 
that of the country, when the people of Israel found themselves in 
control of a country, they named it after its inhabitants - Israel 
(occasionally).

The people and the country share a name, but that doesn't mean they're 
equivalent - the land of Israel is that which is inhabited by the 
[people|children] of Israel. It's now also the name of the state that 
exists on that land.

>> How is this Israel 'being' Judaism any more than it is Israel bending
>> to the will of a religions group?
>
> Bending to the will of a religious group usually doesn't include
> defying /your own stated mandate/ to create a constitution.  That would
> seem, at least to me, to be completely surrendering to the will of the
> whole religion.

No, completely surrendering to the will of the religion would be 
disposing of that entire mandate for them. This is *partially* 
surrendering to their will, otherwise known as compromising.

> Whatever the reason or reasoning, it is still a Jewish homeland for
> Jewish people primarily and the government is a Jewish government.  It
> is funny how one doesn't get this same denial from Israelis,
> themselves.  They /know/ that Israel is a Jewish state for Jews.

You do get precisely that argument amongst Israelis. Even so, being a 
Jewish homeland for Jewish people with a Jewish government would not 
make it equivalent to Judasim. It would make it Jewish.

You seem to have left your earlier point: I'm not trying to argue that 
Israel isn't Jewish to whatever degree - I don't think that being a 
Jewish state makes it equivalent to Judaism and earlier you were saying 
that it did.

[...]

> They don't have equivalence because the Muslim countries are many.

So were another Jewish country to be founded, Israel and Judaism would 
lose their equivalence, without either having to change?

-- 
Avi