This place sure goes in "spurts"

[Peter Garrett]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:54:15 +0200
Donn <donn.ingle at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 21 July 2009 15:38:49 Ari Torhamo wrote:
> > Perhaps this is just the right question to ask. What will be left, if we
> > leave out reasoning, logic, beliefes - all thinking - and even emotions
> > (our reactions to our own thoughts) for a moment? 
> Good start.
> 
> > For our reasoning mind
> > the answer may seem to be "nothing". 
> I think I see where this is going...
> 
> > On the other hand some say the
> > answer is "everything". 
> Some do indeed. Doesn't make them right. Even if billions of them say it.
> 
> > Which ever it is, one hasn't studied this
> > question through before finding out. 
> Okay, that did not make any sense.
> 
> > Obviously the answer can't be found
> > by reason;
> Ah bingo! Mysticism.
> 
> > thinking of stopping thinking won't do ;-) This practice - or
> > state of mind - is often called "meditation".
> Yes, I know about that. I even agree with you! Yes, you read that right. I 
> feel (and have experienced) that there is a strange set of circumstances 
> within our own minds and when the conditions are right (calm, meditation, 
> chemical profile) then you get a very different outlook on the whole "I" and 
> "me" thing. This is worth study and could bring people together. I do think 
> that the more we learn about our minds the more we will find reasons for peace 
> and love. 
> 
> But.
> 
> This does not get done by saying "God did it" and then smiling like a wise 
> guru and shaking your head.

This perhaps is why discussions about belief/mysticism/religion/god
always deteriorate into (excuse my bluntness) arrogant pronouncements.

Perhaps we stumble over the words, even when we recognise that the
meditative experience is valid, helpful, positive. 

Reason says that the experience can be explained, or will eventually be
explained, by chemistry, physics, cell metabolism, and so forth.

The explanations will always be incomplete - that' s the evolving
nature of science.

Personally, although a scientific explanation of love would interest
me, it would make no difference to the validity and essentially
irrational nature of the experience.

Some of the greatest achievements of human culture have been at their
heart quite irrational. Consider expressionism, surrealism, or indeed
many forms of art. Even though art issues from the human mind, and is
sometimes rationally thought out, most artists would I think tell you
that they often produce works in a quite irrational manner, and
sometimes that works beautifully.

Worshipping rationality is just as dangerous as dumping it...

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed
of in your philosophy" - Hamlet

Sincerely,

Peter