Netbook Remix launcher

[Liam Proven]

2009/1/14 Mario Vukelic <mario.vukelic at dantian.org>:
> On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 15:24 +0000, Liam Proven wrote:
>> Gnome-panel depends on evolution-data-server.
>
> Only because the clock/calendar applet needs it to integrate with the
> Evolution calendar

Yes, I know that! But I don't *want* Evolution integration, any more
than I want Internet Explorer integrated with Windows or Safari
integrated with Mac OS X!

I am not arguing the integration. I am arguing that the integration is
a bad idea.

>> Without the panel, GNOME
>> is not really a usable desktop!
>
> AFAICT the panel will run happily, just not with calendar integration.
> Could you please try stuff before wasting time with inaccurate
> statements?

You try doing an apt-get remove evolution-data-server then. Note
carefully the list of other packages that will be removed. Note that
gnome-panel is one of them.

>> The disk space is not the sole issue. It is inelegant, and in 20y
>> working with computers and Unix, when I see something inelegant, it
>> normally says to me that something somewhere is broken and somebody is
>> trying to paper over the cracks.
>
> How is it inelegant to provide a common service for the whole desktop,
> i.e., calendar integration? How else would you do it than having a
> daemon run with a published protocol to talk to it?

Integrating part of *one specific application* to provide a
(non-essential) function is a bad idea in what is meant to be a
modular, CORBA-based desktop.

As I said, it would be just as bad if it were part of any other
program, even if it were one I used daily.

> If it makes you happier, pretend that evolution-data-server is called
> gnome-data-server and be happy. e-d-s was created *specifically* to
> allow this service to become independent from Evolution proper.

Then rename it as such, and let's see some sign of any other app
whatsoever using this interface.

>> Obviously, I expect the functionality to be gone, but I expect to be
>> able to replace the Ubuntu project's choice of app with my own
>
> You still haven't demonstrated why this is supposedly not possible.

Try removing evolution-data-server. You don't need to do it; just pick
it in Synaptic or your tool of choice and see what else depends on it
and will be removed if it goes.

>> (Thunderbird, with Lightning or Sunbird if one wants calendar support,
>> which I personally don't) without breaking the desktop.
>
> e-d-s exists and is Gnome's standard way to provide calendar
> integration. If the Thunderbird devs don't write the glue code it is
> hardly Gnome's or Evolution's fault.

I am not saying that other programs' failure to interoperate with a
feature I neither need nor want is a failure. I am saying that tying
one specific app into a general-purpose desktop is a bad idea.

> And, again, removing e-d-s does not break the desktop.
>
>> This practice of tying one piece of software in with another is the
>> sort of behaviour I expect of an under-handed commercial company, such
>> as Microsoft, not of Free software.
>
> Bollocks. If you want integration, you will have dependencies. The
> choice part comes in where you do not have to run Gnome, or any DE for
> that matter but still be able to interact with the rest of the world.

I *don't* want the integration, but I don't have the option of
removing it. That is what I am protesting about.

>> I fail to see why GNOME's clock, even with the function of time
>> adjustment and whatnot - or any other bit of a desktop and file
>> manager - needs a specific email program installed. This, it seems to
>> me, is an error or a bug.
>
> Yet again: for integration with the calendar. The clock talks to e-d-s
> and *any* email client can talk to e-d-s. Talk the Thunderbird devs into
> supporting Gnome properly.

It is nothing to do with Thunderbird.

This is a piece of irrelevant, unnecessary functionality. I expect my
system clock to show me the time and date and maybe a simple calendar
on demand.

If I want to know what upcoming events I have I will look in my diary,
not in the system clock. Who keeps appointments in their clock? It's a
different function altogether. Not everything that displays the date
is a diary.

It's a similar argument as that which created Outlook in the first
place, which Evolution seeks to emulate. Just because I get notified
of appointments by email sometimes does not mean that is a good reason
to build a diary app into my email client. I get URLs in email, too. I
don't want a web browser embedded in my email client, either; nor do I
want an email client embedded in my browser.

When my mail client, on Linux, Windows or OS X, gets a URL, it's
highlighted and if I click it it launches my browser. The same is
possible with multimedia streams, ftp addresses, email addresses and
all manner of URL. All that's needed is a standard resource
identified.

Embedding a calendar into an email program is like embedding a boat
into a car because some drivers might occasionally go to the seaside.
It makes a lousy boat and a lousy car.

The Unix philosophy is meant to be about multiple small, separate
programs working together to achieve complex tasks.

But here, we have a desktop environment that includes an email client
that includes a scheduling app. These are different jobs.

If one user wants to use an all-in-one tool, good for them. But
others, such as myself, do not. The thing is, I have had the option
taken away.

This is a retrograde step.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
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