Sounder mailing list etiquette and future direction

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan Pope <alan at popey.com> wrote:
> 2009/12/4 Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>:
>> Absolutely. This is the only one of the 5 Ubuntu lists I am on that I
>> really actively participate in any longer - and the only one that had
>> broken reply-to headers, incidentally - and that is because of its
>> free-ranging, friendly, jokey tone. Moderate that away & they will
>> moderate away the reason I am here.
>>
>
> I don't think anyone is suggesting/advocating removing a free-ranging,
> friendly and jokey tone.
>
> What I specifically wanted to highlight was the bitchy trollish flames
> that frequent this place, and try to foster a lack of tolerance of
> those types of post.

Damned if I know what you hope to achieve, then.

Part of the nature of humour, free-ranging discussion and learning is
sarcasm, irony & a modicum of gentle mockery. Prevent me from using
these techniques, you are restricting my freedom of expression. When I
am restricted from expressing myself, in effect, I consider myself to
be censored, and I am not tolerating that.

Basically, to me, all these comments about "people shouldn't need to
be thick-skinned" and so on sound like some idealistic and impossible
desire to create some lovey-huggy
let's-everyone-be-nice-to-everyone-else-all-the-time-OR-ELSE sort of
atmosphere, like some kind of demented kindergarten class with a
far-too-strict leader.

Not only am I not willing to play along with these rules, but frankly,
I find such insipid and characterless discussions - something I find a
particularly American sort of tone in some online fora - to be
hatefully and intolerably dull.

In other words, by attempting to *force* everyone to "play nice" or be
banned, the only result is to kill open discussion and debate.

I'm not saying there should be no guidelines at all. I know - although
have absolutely zero sympathy - that some people find certain
swear-words or explicit mention of sex violently offensive. I agree,
reluctantly, that this should not be allowed. (But then, in Scott
Adam's blog today, the comment board auto-censored the word "shaved",
which is manifestly ridiculous.)

OTOH, the chap here that kept issuing some kind of muslim dedication -
that is violently offensive to me, as a hardcore atheist. I am not
posting any message dedicated to anyone's  god, nor am I even replying
to one. I myself would move for a total ban on all mention of any
religion, including those to me rather hateful sigs proclaiming that
people espouse any particular variety of primitive superstition.

But attempting to moderate out, or enforce rules to get rid of, banter
and joshing, and you're castrating a community and a tone.

You may not kill it, but you will very probably turn it into somewhere
I have no interest in reading or participating in.

Summary: be careful what you wish for.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
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