[OT] [FIN4mike] Re: ubuntu for pagans

Michael Shigorin mike at osdn.org.ua
Mon Jun 20 08:42:53 CDT 2005


	Fellow listreaders,
I apologize if I've hurt anyone's feelings -- hurting _people_
isn't my objective.  Still hunting diseases is... sometimes.

If anyone is thinking I'm a religious bigot after pagans or
"straight person" hating gay folks or white racist -- of course 
no.

Each and every of us does have the freedom to choose.


Still... Emil, and anyone who thinks you have free speech.
Google for "telegony".  One simple keyword.  Compare #1 result
and the real social consequences for the society that's around
you.  Think of it: those who promote "free life" between you
have paid enough to shut off such knowledge from you.

And if someone gets the horror of where you actually are, well 
there are quite a few more nice keywords -- with the conclusion
that gay life and pagan rituals are indeed single-rooted
diseases.


Eric, and anyone who would frown upon "d*mned soviets" and known
someone over here or migrated.  Ask them to ask their grannies
about 1943, Stalingrad and why the monasteries were open back
after that battle.  By the very same Stalin and Beria.


John, please take the time to think on the above keyword before
judging sense vs nonsense.  Maybe Titanic stewards would call
the danger nonsense -- but you'd later call them ignorant.


Hm... Mark, if you manage to waste your time on this thread...
It's really very sorrow a topic for me to touch each time.
And it's really about making people hurt even if it's not 
a scalpel.  But I've already lost one of the most close friends 
of mine after being shy to talk and "get in his private matters"
-- those were NLP folks who made him kill himself.  Same root.

So it's not a junk flame to insult people and happily leave for
the next list for me -- no time for projects I already do, but
humans really are more important than bytes to me.



--- personal replies in the more common part ---

On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 08:09:39AM -0400, Eric Dunbar wrote:
> Anyway, to finish off, Michael Shigorin, in all my years on
> e-mail lists (including one off-topic list where
> inter-anti-religious discussions could get quite heated) I
> cannot remember a post as ill-informed and vile as yours.

Maybe you just didn't meet well-informed people who actually talk
on topics like this.  Was acting similarly myself until actually
did.

> In one e-mail you manage to hurl both anti-gay slurs and make
> some pretty vile comments regarding pagans.

Just because I see clearly the same origin to them.

> Anyway, I think you owe both Emil and the Ubuntu community in
> general an apology.

I don't feel like I belong to the latter -- rather a stranger here.
(seems like enough time spent here, although it's a sad good-bye
note to give)

Anyways.

> Bigotry cannot be tolerated anywhere in life

Yes.

> and you certainly need to re-read what you wrote and (a)
> separate fact from fiction and (b) think through what your
> comments said.  In particular, take the time to learn about
> what it is you are criticising. 

Eric, my problem is that *I do*.  And it's painful to understand
that a fair share of the words I write *will* hurt some people 
(and some egos).  Still, it's _the_ best humanity to tell people
where you've met the landmines, not to shut up and sit down.  Of me.



On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 01:55:28PM +0200, Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski wrote:
> > > What are you implying? That pagans (all sort of) are spoiled?
> > Yep.
>  Why? 

[taking off-list]

> > >  Sir, could I point you to the Code of Conduct?
> > Yes, please.  You can even do that off-list. :-]
>  D'oh -- use Wiki search. ;-)

D'uh, John Levin was kind enough to lend an URL. ;-)

Thanks but honestly (even so): wasn't intending to insult the
person asking the original question _personally_, nor the whole
"subculture" one-by-one.  I don't hate people, I hate those
diseases we let in.  It's different.

> Also, I hate political correctness

Me too.  But again, it's a curtain for ill societies to hide the
problems with.  Calling things their names is mandatory to me.
(yes, there were -- and are -- quite a few real-life problems 
due to that, go figure)

> I'm fighing for my rights. If they can force them to shut up,
> once they can force you or me.

"They"'re already forcing, and actually pointing finger at, well,
folks with, well, non-biological diseases and saying "see, they
have the freedom of speech!" is really more of a smoke-screen.

Thanks for understanding anyways, listening in discussion is the
only way to get anything out of it.



On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 12:44:26PM +0100, John Levin wrote:
> >And I'd be curious enough to ask whether gay folks -- and there
> >are seemingly even more of those than dedicated pagans -- should
> >deserve their gay Ubuntu even before these do... there are lots
> >of diseases, and priding them isn't productive.
> Please read the ubuntu code of conduct:
> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct

Thanks, missed upon that when loking into Ubuntu community.
Maybe put the link on lists page?

> And spare us this nonsense equating sexuality with disease.

John, if it's an official invitation, I'm quite easy to leave
last month or so (not much sense to lurk, I've learned what
I wanted to know already).

Otherwise, please see the top of the message.

PS: I suspect there's a couple more emails going to and fro with
Emil and "shane" (who just replied off-list in detail, rare to
see) -- if someone gets interested, I may publish the messages
sent somewhere temporarily, ping me then. (not a warning... and
I should have thought better, knowing some of my own mind
diseases and effort it takes to talk it to people... oh well)

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/
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