Request for MOTU Council to consider Marco Rodrigues (Kmos) not potentially suitable for MOTUL

[Michael Bienia]

On 2007-12-08 15:02:52 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Saturday 08 December 2007 13:08, Michael Bienia wrote:

[ First this is my *own* opinion and should not be mixed up with any
'official' MC statement. ]

> Thank you for this.  I'd like to encourage yourself and the other MC members 
> to have as much of this discussion in public as possible.  However it works 
> out, I think it important that the result be fair and the process reasonably 
> transparent.

Thanks.

> > I haven't yet also come to a decision about the proposed solution.
> > On the one hand it's a very extreme solution to disable/limit someones
> > LP account as this cuts him off of all Ubuntu-related contributions and
> > activities.
> 
> This is true, but some of his most difficult actions to deal with have been 
> caused by filing masses of mostly bad sync bugs, even after having been 
> warned.  I don't think anything less will be effective.
> 
> > I'd prefer to use such measures as a last resort and have tried several
> > other solutions before I agree to such a solution.
> 
> We've done that already.  

My impression is that Kmos still hasn't realized what's at stake for
him.

> > In particular as a first step this is IMHO a very drastic solution.
> > Additionally there was no 'official' warning from the MC towards him in
> > the past (at least I don't know of any).
> 
> This is not, IMO, a first step, but a last one.  I don't think you want the MC 
> to become a formal disciplinary body.  I would also encourage you to consider 
> the likely consequence of such a decision.  If it becomes clear that abusive 
> behavior will only be stopped after the MC issues an official warning and 
> then the problem recurrs, people (I would expect) will ask for such warnings 
> earlier and more frequently.

It's about balance again. I don't want that bad behaviour only stops
because the MC has intervened but I also don't want that a MOTU
contributor/hopeful fears about his LP account because he has done some
errors and a MOTU is angry at him (unless it happens to often). There
has to be some middle ground.

We need to work out what works best, till now it wasn't needed
(luckily).

> > I also don't want to leave the impression that we have lost control
> > about the situation (I hope this is not the case) and trying now to
> > force an improvment.
> 
> That's my impression.  Personally, I think that the behavior in this case has 
> been sufficiently egregious that someone in leadership should have taken up 
> this problem and tried to solve it.

Yes, I agree that the MC should have reacted earlier.

> > On the other hand I understand that this is not a normal situation and I
> > also understand the feelings of some MOTUs towards Kmos and their need
> > for a solution. I could also understand if some MOTUs shorten their MOTU
> > activities (or step down from them) if the MC doesn't come to a suitable
> > solution for them soon though I would regret it.
> 
> I've already done so.  I believe others have too, but will let them speak for 
> themselves.

I hope you will get more active again when the MC has successfully
managed to improve the atmosphere around MOTU.

> > But this doesn't make the decision easier (only harder). I also don't
> > want that it looks like the MC was forced towards this solution for the
> > greater benefit of all MOTUs as this would lessen the position of the MC
> > (which isn't currently the best either). The MC should stay independent
> > from compulsions from MOTUs.
> 
> Personally, I'm not trying to make any compulsions.  It is a fact that I've 
> substantially reduced my involvement in Ubuntu development for Hardy as 
> compared to Gutsy.  This is not the only reason, but it's one of the big 
> ones.

It was not against you, but about the current atmosphere in MOTU in
general which isn't the best at the moment. I don't want to sacrifice
parts of the idea behind MOTU to improve the current situation.

> You (the MC) have to decide what kind of community you want.  If Kmos is what 
> you want, then I'll have to decide how much involvement I want in that kind 
> of community.

I want a MC that comes to a decision because the MC believes that this
solution is the best one for a problem and for MOTU and not because it
wants to please some old-established MOTUs to keep them. Note that the
opinions of the MC and of the MOTU body has not to be always different
(it should even be in the same direction else the MC wouldn't be a good
representation of the MOTU body).

To make myself clear: I don't want to imply that the MC is making bad
decisions or that your proposal is wrong. I'm absolutely happy with the
current MC and want to keep it like that (but a more active and less
passive as in the past).

[ I hope I found the right words for my feelings. It's not easy to find
the right words for a non-native speaker where a wrong word or term may
create the wrong impression. ]

> I would encourage you (and the other MC members) to seek wider input from 
> other MOTUs.  This decision shouldn't be made just on your perspectives or 
> mine, but based on the consensus of ubuntu-developers.  I will note that the 
> first large scale problems in Gutsy started shortly after DIF.  DIF for Hardy 
> is in 5 days.

I would be happy to see comments from other MOTUs about Scott's
proposal.

Michael