Vision for Kubuntu

[Xen]

I am not receiving messages currently So I am responding from copy paste 
currently.


Óscar Fuentes wrote on Mon Oct 24 22:50:53 UTC 2016:

> [snip]

>> But the general idea of open source is that people do what they want
>> to do,

> True. But the project administrator has no obligation whatsoever to
> incorporate your work into the project. You can keep your changes to
> yourself or publish a forked project.

The point is more that not only work is not accepted (which could be 
reasonable) but also that discourse is disrespected. They abuse public 
venues some of which are free resources for a company objective, 
effectively.

On those public venues, which are supposed -- at least that's what you 
would think -- to be places where people can freely talk, free talk is 
actually not allowed and all messages are continually monitored to 
comply with the mission.

The project and many projects broadcast an idea of community and it is 
not about community and there is no community, other than perhaps that a 
company like Logitech or Synology can have community.

It is virtually impossible for Kubuntu to become involved as e.g. a 
documentator, because there are no freely available places where you can 
document. Free spots for "little work" are not available, and hence only 
"bigger positions" are up for offer, that require real commitment and 
big tasks to perform, effectively.

This means that the bar to entry is extremely high -- not that I would 
be wanting to fill any of those bigger spots, nor could I, but just 
saying.

And what's more important even is that instead of creating community a 
ripe field for creativity is shut down and spontaneous actions are 
frowned upon. One is not allowed to use even this "space" (where one can 
talk, with other people, for instance, as would be the case if this 
really was community) for their own projects, the space itself is 
guarded as being part only of the core project here.

So where do people go that want to do anything? They can't do anything 
here, because their communication is disrupted.

So they must indeed, completely, create their own project and create 
their own space in which to do these things. But this is hardly possible 
if you cannot talk to anyone *also* using the systems that you yourself 
use. How do you get in touch with e.g. other Kubuntu users if the 
Kubuntu channels themselves are not allowed for doing that?

What if you get kicked out of the forums if you are trying to do these 
things?

So the problem is basically that there are no communication channels one 
could use. Namely, if you were to really create a fork, it would seem 
evident that it would be a competition, a competing product. One would 
never allow a competing product to take root on its own floor.

And if the only way to agree with and comply with the main project as it 
exists today, is by creating a totally new project (or fork), then it is 
completely black and white; there is in fact then no cooperation.

There is then no blending. This is what you propose: no blending.

This is what is actually true: you cannot use the channels of this 
project to start anything new or anything that could grow on top of the 
current project. There is no room for manouvring here.

Therefore it is not a fertile ground where you can work with... other 
people, or reach other people, because if you pitch your ideas here, you 
get attacked, or at least deeply criticized of what you do.

And simply put: communication precedes activity.

Talk precedes doing.

Design precedes implementation. So by blocking that first step, the 2nd 
step also never arises and you are left without recourse, or, as is said 
in Spanish "sin remedio".

And Valorie asked about communication but she uses this only as a 
project management channel. I thought it was a user channel (this one) 
but... not really.

The very simple fact is that there is no way to get in touch with other 
Kubuntu users.

Equally so the same is true for the main Ubuntu product. If you start to 
_do your own thing_ on e.g. the Ubuntu Forums, they shut you down.

They want to hear nothing of it. They are selling _their product_, they 
have no need for yours.

And so of course it is correct that a project management is allowed to 
do these things. But that is *not* an open source community. The whole 
idea of open source is that you *are* allowed to do with it what you 
want, and this *actively fights that*.

This just *completely* breaks the social contract of open source: that 
you can do with it whatever you like. You are not allowed to do with it 
whatever you like. Yeah, if you first create your own platform and then 
become a competitor.

And then they will probably shut people up if they talk about your 
product...

Then they will say "This is not a xxx forum".

"If you want to talk xxx, go elsewhere".

Usually as a person you are not seeking the support of the main project.

You are usually just seeking a place to talk.

But even if you just as a user you have criticism of the product (as a 
"customer", to keep falling in line with this company model) you are 
also dissuaded from speaking, but oh! then they send you to the 
"appropriate channels", they want you to use their "user support system" 
that they call "bugzilla" or something.

Since this is a public channel, bug reports reflect negatively on the 
product. So they want you to stop talking here and only talk on the bug 
report system where no other user will readily hear it; such is also 
what a normal company would do.

So effectively, this public channel disagrees with the notion of running 
a company.

Regular companies do not have public channels, they have dedicated 
systems for this (for individual users, privately) however recently such 
public channels have been created, often Facebook. And on those channels 
they do their _utmost best_ to help people -- because it reflects on 
their image!

People often take to those channels because it is the only place they 
will be taken for real. Some companies then back away from those 
channels (e.g. forums) because they don't want to be associated with all 
the complaining ;-).

But in general a mailing list is public but it still can be moderated 
just like a forum. So you can still kick people out who try to do their 
own thing.



> It seems to me that you are upset because Kubuntu's admins are not
> interested on some of your ideas.

It is not only a lack of interest, it is being actively fought in the 
interests you are trying to convey to other people by using this as a 
channel for your own good (and that of Kubuntu, in your opinion, of 
course).


> But you fail to realize that this is also part of how projects are
> run. In fact, it is a fundamental duty of the admins to encourage
> work that advances the project's mission and reject the rest.

I don't disagree with that. Not "exclusively". That is to say, I do not 
agree with it entirely, but I do also not disagree with it entirely.

The point is that they want to "own" their product like a company does.

And we all shy away from companies because they are evil, right? Well, 
not so, because they are doing exactly the same here (and elsewhere). So 
we have a company, that's a given. It is not a financial or economical 
company, but it is still a company, even if it is just Kubuntu here (and 
the people that obviously run it).

A regular company will also not allow you to influence the direction of 
the product. Also not here, even though that is supposed to be the whole 
intent (that you can contribute, etc.).

Anyway, all of this is nice and philosophical, but it doesn't really 
help much.

The point remains that this is not a community. This is not a 
collaborative project (except within the company itself).

Ubuntu is also not a community. Debian is a community, yes, but Ubuntu 
isn't.

Debian has a constitution. Ubuntu doesn't have a constitution. It has a 
code of conduct, but that is not the same.

You can't influence Kubuntu, you cannot add to Kubuntu, you cannot do 
anything for Kubuntu. Perhaps you can find a vocation (vacation) if you 
can do some website work, but again, talk precedes doing, and if they 
don't like your work, you are done.

What else can I say? I can't say anything, and that was the whole 
intent, probably.

Sorry about that. See ya.





> [snip]