switching users... forget it!

Wed Jul 16 04:48:01 UTC 2014

On 07/12/2014 06:48 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
> On 07/12/2014 02:13 AM, Scott DuBois wrote:
>> On 07/11/2014 05:41 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
>>> On 07/10/2014 11:00 PM, c. marlow wrote:
>>>> On 07/10/2014 10:00 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2014-07-10 at 20:37 -0500, c. marlow wrote:
>>>>>> I just hope I dont have to put up with LINUX too much longer... Tired
>>>>>> of reformatting.  Hope to replace this machine with a windows machine
>>>>>> sooon!!!
>>>>> Linux is for users with self-responsibility and using some freakish
>>>>> distro, that does cause you issues, so that you need to sent your
>>>>> requests to another distro's mailing list is reckless, far away of
>>>>> being
>>>>> self-responsible. If you need a nanny, than Windows likely is the
>>>>> better
>>>>> choice for your needs, since Linux isn't a replacement for Windows,
>>>>> it's
>>>>> not intended to replace Windows, it's for users with needs that are
>>>>> different from Windows user needs.
>>>> 1. this computer came with Kubuntu ( pre built) was kinda thrown
>>>> together for me by some friends. Lots of things dont work on it... CD
>>>> ROM etc....
>>>>
>>>> 2. LM is based on Kubuntu 14.04 LTS and was told it was ok to post
>>>> here since it is based on Kubuntu.
>>>>
>>> Somehow or another I seem to have not received Ralf's reply, however I
>>> take exception with both his attitude and message.
>>>
>>> All I can say about his attitude is that it stinks. It is not typical of
>>> most people on this list.
>>>
>>> About his message, I AM just a an average home computer user. The type
>>> that typically runs Windows. I have been successfully using Kubuntu for
>>> many years and SuSE before that. In my experience Linux, and Kubuntu
>>> specifically, has been just as easy to use, after the unlearning of some
>>> bad habits left over from we all know where, and possibly easier to use
>>> than Windows.
>>>
>>> I question the use of "friend" in the OP's message above. It sounds to
>>> me like his "friend" set him up to fail from the beginning. Things like
>>> CD/DVD roms just work in my experience. Sounds like a hardware issue
>>> rather than an OS issue. His "friend" also just dumped him in the deep
>>> end and walked away. There is a bit of a learning curve when first using
>>> Linux in general. My own first experience with Linux were not all that
>>> pleasant but I stuck with it out of bull headed determination and got
>>> through that learning curve. A true "friend" that dumps a Linux box on
>>> someones desk out of the blue would stick around and help them through
>>> the learning curve.
>>>
>>> My message to the OP is to have an attitude of, "please help me
>>> understand and learn to use this operating system," if that is what you
>>> really want to do. An, "I want to dump this piece of S___ and get a
>>> Windows machine," attitude is not conducive to getting good assistance
>>> responses.
>>>
>> You make a good point Billie, while I don't think I would go so far as
>> to say the "friend" set them up, the "friend" in question should have at
>> least made themselves available for help and if they were unable to
>> provide it, ask in the mailing lists, forums or IRC; something I know I
>> should do myself more often. Everyone needs help once in a while and it
>> shouldn't be hard to find considering the size and scope of the Linux
>> community. We should pride ourselves for being the largest collaborative
>> effort in the world which goes beyond just developers and include users
>> and support for each other. : )
>>
>> When I enter the Kubuntu IRC it always seems like the "dead zone" - at
>> least off-topic for small talk and general chat.
>>
>> Linux does take patience to get used to but I think we all have to admit
>> that many of the distros get easier to use and more stable as the kernel
>> continues to mature and more people contribute when and where they can.
>> Too many people get a false sense that all operating systems are the
>> same so switching to a Linus system is simple just like switching
>> between XP and W7 when it's not the case.
>>
>> My first go with Linux was with Ubuntu 9.10 just as it was released and
>> I would get so frustrated I sometimes would have my wallet and keys in
>> my hand to go get a new copy of Windows. Then I would stop myself and
>> think "Thousands of people use Ubuntu on a daily basis and I'm just as
>> smart as many of them; I can do this." Then get right back at it and
>> keep pounding away at learning what I needed to do to MAKE it work for
>> me.
>>
> 
> My first go with Linux was SuSE 9, I believe, that I bought in a box at
> Comp USA. I set it up dual boot with Windows and "played" with it when I
> wasn't doing anything in particular. Can't tell you how many times I had
> to reformat that partition and reinstall. I quickly learned a whole lot
> of things NOT to do. Before long I managed to come to terms with it at
> some level and actually using it to do something constructive. One hump
> in the learning curve was learning what programs did what. The programs
> names are sometime not very clear at what they are for. As time went on,
> I one day realized that I hadn't booted into Windows for a very long
> time. I haven't looked back. I used SuSE for several versions but I kept
> hearing great things about *Ubuntu so I set up a dual boot SuSE/Kubuntu.
> SuSE had/has some nice features but I finally decided that Kubuntu
> suited me more. The rest, as they say, is history.
> 
> I said the OP's "friend" set him up to fail partly because I suspect his
> box has hardware issues. He said it was just something "thrown together"
> for him which, to my mind, says it's an older box that was put together
> with older, used, hardware. The OP specifically says that many things
> don't work and gives the CD rom as an example. I don't know about anyone
> else , but I haven't had an issue with a CD/DVD rom since I can't
> remember when unless it was bad. I can hardly imagine a more difficult
> situation than someone unfamiliar with the operating system and
> suffering with hardware issues at the same time. That is a user failure
> situation if I ever saw one. If your going to throw someone into the
> deep end with Linux you need to make sure the hardware is going to work
> for a long time.
> 
> We, Tracie and myself, have refurbished and given away to those in need
> many an old box. I have always told them that if they have an issue to
> call me. Some had issues in a short time others ran for long periods
> before an issue showed up. Some I never heard from again.
> 
> Last but not least. There are a LOT of really nice people on this list.
> Very helpful and knowledgeable. Always ready to lend a newbie a hand.
> Now, I don't know Ralf, and he may be a very nice person that just had a
> bad day. But a message like he sent will run off more newbies than the
> situation our OP is in. How many other newbies are out there reading the
> mail list, trying to figure out Kubuntu, and not posting. We all need a
> bit of hand holding, and possibly nannying, from time to time. I'm no
> longer familiar with other flavors of Linux, but I believe Kubuntu is
> as, and more so, user friendly than even Windows.
> 

Very well said Billie!

This has been the most activity to come through this list since I
subscribed many moons ago and I'm pleased to see it. Either that or
something got broken between Google, the Linux Foundation and
Thunderbird that is now fixed.

Either way, I'm also rather new to this list and look forward to getting
to know everyone as time moves on. I'm glad to hear there are lots of
nice, helpful people on this list as it gives me a sense of being in the
right place and with the right people. I've found that some mailing
lists can be hit-and-miss with mean people that seem to show up and
troll the good people making what could otherwise be wonderful
conversations turn into horrible bickering matches.

I know the original message was kind of hot and stressed what could have
become a rather heated response from many Linux followers and advocates,
but we also have to consider as you said, the person may have just had a
bad day just like the person at work who out of the blue starts
complaining about something. It happens, to many of us, and I always try
to give people the benefit of the doubt as fire on fire just burns more
down.

I couldn't even begin to comprehend, or want to try, the relationship
between the OP and their friend or the details behind the construction
of said machine. I do feel a sense of awkward responsibility as I would
really prefer everyone's fist experience with Kubuntu is a happy and
productive one although I know this is completely beyond my control and
I just have to accept that. In the time that this thread has been
continuing, I hope our friend has been able to resolve their issue and
come to the realization that the OS, more than likely, was not the cause
of their pain but a victim of other hardware related issues as yourself
had mentioned to be suspect. I also hope the OP has had an opportunity
to reflect on the original post and thought about rephrasing such
frustrations in the future.

So is life, we press on. : )

-- 
Scott DuBois
President EBLUG
BSIT Software Engineering
Freenode: Roguehorse