5 years of support..!!??

[Mark Greenwood]

On 4 Mar 2012, at 23:23, rterry at pacific.net.au wrote:

> In praise of Kubuntu.
> 
> For my 2c worth  I like Kubuntu best of all the distros and I've tried many. I 
> sometimes just put on a new one to compare, eg, Linux Mint recently, which 
> quickly drove me crazy - didn't fit my needs.
> 
> I use Kubuntu it in my office, running it on 7 networked machines  including my 
> laptop - ranging from version 9 on the laptop through to 12 beta + straight 
> ubuntu server on one file server and and esmith on  another.
> 
> The later versions are streets  ahead of the earlier ones, though I'd agree 
> 3.5 was most stable though really lacked much of the automation that the newer 
> versions have with networking/printing/wireless, back then I used ARCH linux, 
> now just straight Kubuntu.
> 
> I guess it depends what you want to do with it.
> 
> I find it reliable for word processing, image processing, admittedly my kmail 
> is on my laptop version 9, and I've left it that way because of all the flak on 
> the last about kmail. As I program - I've written most of the software I use 
> in the office in gambas3.
> 
> I run virtual box with WinXP where I need windows, which is for not-much. I've 
> got legal copies of various flavours of windows - form XP to multiple Windows 
> 7's but never use those partitions.
> 
> No problem with virus's either.
> 
> Postgresql fabulous.
> 
> Could go on and on.
> 
> Those coming from windows possibly need to look at the philosophy of 
> linux/open source, where staggering numbers of people work tirelessly for a 
> cause without thanks or payment.

This is a very valid point. The majority of developers working on KDE work without payment. But this means they work to their own schedule, doing things their way when they have the time. I therefore do not understand how any distro can have a regular planned release cycle - it is guaranteed that you will be releasing code that isn't finished. If Kubuntu took the Debian approach to releasing - which works WITH this development model instead of in spite of it - then it would be a killer OS. But with the obsession with 6 monthly releases I don't see how you can ever get a truly stable OS unless by complete luck. This is the major problem, IMO. 

I think if Kubuntu waited until there was a proper, working, stable KDE 4 (say, probably KDE 4.12) before they made their next release, and then had 5 years of support on that, then they'd have something to be truly proud of. Instead we have these regular 6 monthly snapshots of something that is in continual flux - some parts work and some parts don't. Why don't we just wait until all the parts work and then release that? 

I like open source, I like the concept and I like the ethos. The trouble is that commercialising it and applying corporate ideals to it is anathema to everything that makes it good.

Why don't I use Debian? Because Debian's default install still takes more effort to get to work that a Kubuntu default install. Too much hassling around with non-free drivers etc. I just wish Kubuntu took Debian's attitude to releasing. Kubuntu's attitude to non-free software is perfect, IMO.

Mark

> 
> To the kubuntu team - keep up the good work.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Richard
> 
> On Monday 05 March 2012 10:12:15 Leslie Anne Chatterton wrote:
>> Hi Bruce,
>> 
>> Well I guess Kubuntu isn't for everyone and we need to hear
>> experiences like yours to bring us back to reality. I think there are
>> probably lots of Windows and Mac users who have had similarly
>> frustrating experiences but don't want to speak up and appear like
>> dummies. Linux will become mainstream only when it offers a
>> "foolproof" edition that is unbreakable, as well as the tinkerer's
>> versions that most of us now enjoy.
>> 
>> Probably for most people on this list the fun of Linux is in solving
>> problems, which are the exact reason why "ordinary" users such as
>> yourself want to scream with frustration! Use what works for you.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Leslie Anne
>> 
>> On 4 March 2012 15:02, Bruce Bales <bbales at cox.net> wrote:
>>> On 03/02/2012 03:42 AM, Mark Greenwood wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2 Mar 2012, at 09:26, Alex Gabriel wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Indicating that quality has decreased is a subjective statement.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well yes and no. Let's compare where I am with Kubuntu today to where I
>>> was when I had Kubuntu with KDE 3.5 on it, which must be 3 years ago now.
>>> 
>>> Back then, the laptop power management options worked. Today the 'shut
>>> down after x minutes of inactivity' is broken, the 'sleep when I close
>>> the lid' is broken, and even if it does sleep I have no networking when
>>> it wakes.
>>> 
>>> Back then I had an email client that worked. Today I have one that, with
>>> a great amount of annoying fiddling, will retrieve my email but not
>>> without using 75% of my CPU for about two hours. (Honestly, I'm not
>>> making that up, that is really what happens when I start KMail, every
>>> time. And I know I'm not alone.)
>>> 
>>> I could go on but it would turn into a rant and that's not the point. The
>>> point is that Kubutnu - or rather KDE - today is less functional than it
>>> was 3 years ago. That's not a subjective statement - it's a fact.
>>> 
>>> The developers will no doubt say that "Oh you only need to do x and y and
>>> z and spin round 3 times while chanting 'i hate windows'". That is not
>>> the point. Back then, I didn't have to do those things. This is not
>>> progress however pretty and shiny you make it look.
>>> 
>>> Which brings me back to my original point. While I am glad that we have a
>>> long term support commitment from Canonical, it would be a real shame if
>>> the 5 year supported release of Kubuntu was stuck with KDE 4.8 for 5
>>> years - you'd hope that KDE would eventually start working properly again
>>> at some point before 2017 and what I want to know is will the LTS be
>>> upgraded to new versions of KDE as they come out or will it remain stuck
>>> with the unfinished, malfunctional KDE 4.8?
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> I can really sympathize with you, Mark.  I've been very happy with Linux
>>> for over ten years
>>> trying red hat, debian, caldera, Mandrake and several others before
>>> settling on Kubuntu in about
>>> 2005.  We have four Kubuntu machines.  My wife still uses 6.06 and I have
>>> 8.04, 9.04 and
>>> 10.04 on the others.
>>> 
>>> From the beginning I saw that a bit more skill was required to use Linux
>>> and I thought I
>>> could handle it.  And I could until support on 8.04 was running out.  I
>>> downloaded a 10.4
>>> disk and tried to install it.  It wouldn't install, reporting thousands
>>> of times that
>>> "Serial 8250. too much work for irq17."  I did get it to sort of install
>>> once, but the machine
>>> locked up repeatedly.  The help I got from the list was that someone had
>>> heard that happens
>>> to Dell Computers.
>>> 
>>> So I acquired another computer and successfully installed Kubuntu 10.4.
>>> Unfortunately 10.4
>>> is a mess.
>>> How did it happen that kmail, a perfectly great email client, was
>>> deliberately made totally unusable?
>>> What was wrong with having two panels across the bottom of the screen to
>>> show the active
>>> programs?
>>> Why can't I pick my own icon to represent gedit in the panel on the left?
>>> Why doesn't Thunderbird have a wordwrap?
>>> How could an LTS release of Kubuntu not work on some Dell computers?
>>> 
>>> I have a feeling that 95% of the people on this list could solve most of
>>> my problems easily,
>>> but I'm just a computer user not a developer.  I thought I could get by
>>> with an ocasional
>>> sudo apt-get update   sudo apt-get upgrade.   I guess I thought wrong.
>>> 
>>> bruce
>>> bruce
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
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