[OT] was: Re: Kubuntu a dist in crisis?
claydoh at midmaine.com
Tue Oct 27 21:38:42 UTC 2009
On Tuesday 27 October 2009 04:51:55 pm Steve Lamb wrote:
> Paul Rumelhart wrote:
> > Take a look at the Computer Languages Benchmark Game:
> > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
> I am familiar with the shootout, thanks. More so than you, it seems.
> > They run different programs written in a variety of languages on the
> > architecture and show the results.
> No, they run different test algorithms written in a variety of
> > You almost always see C and C++ (with
> > different compiler optimizations) at the top and scripted languages like
> > Perl, Python, and Ruby at the bottom when measuring speed and
> > usage. Occasionally, something like Haskell or Ada will do surprisingly
> > well.
> And? I never refuted that. I also pointed out that programmer work
> declines dramatically as well. So move your eyes over to the third column
> and state what output there.
> > Scripting languages have a different goal in mind, in my opinion, that
> > makes them unsuitable for some types of programming.
> Agreed. Which is why I made the difference between system
> (C) and application programming (Python).
> > In the data tables on the page referenced above, the
> > difference is often minutes compared to a few seconds.
> Sometimes, not often. And again, these are algorithms and tests
> designed to exaggerate differences.
> > If every
> > application library and application front-end was written in a scripting
> > language, our vast memory, CPU, and hard-disk resources wouldn't save
> > from a sluggish, unusable system.
> Which is never what I said. On the other hand there have been
> applications which were written in Python and compared to their C
> counterparts weren't all that harsh on the CPU or memory. Bittorrent
> clients come to mind.
> > When it comes down to it, a programming language is a tool. Use it
> > it makes sense.
> Yes, now like I said, move your eyes over to the third column and see
> what the shootout shows. Some algorithms are 1/3rd the size of the C
> counterparts. Put that in perspective. A 60,000 line project in C would
> be 20,000 lines in Python. As I said, a factor or two more CPU/RAM usage
> (0.5% to 2.5%, 3mb to 12Mb, for example) to obtain several magnitudes
> savings on the code side? Absolutely!
> You don't think these languages are up to the task. I do. You have
> the shootout on your side. I've got practical applications on mine.
I wasn't looking to start a fight on this question, and I don't think the
responses are meant to inflame or refute, just compare.
A more legitimate or useful question from me would be wondering why
something large, such as Kontact (or Evolution for that matter) and all it's
graphical components is written in a particular language (C or whatever) and
not something else? And why make a big deal over it? For that matter, many
of the Ubuntu/Kubuntu specific tools created *are* python usb-creator,
Kubuntu's printer config applet, jockey are just a few of the ones I can think
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