Clay Weber claydoh at
Tue May 26 17:26:29 UTC 2009

On Tuesday 26 May 2009 9:06:45 am Thorny wrote:
> On Tue, 26 May 2009 13:18:53 +0200, Myriam Schweingruber posted:
> [...]
> > as we repeatedly asked people to respect the mailing list guidelines and
> > the etiquette [1] without effect, we will now put moderation flags to
> > everybody who doesn't respect those rules.
> Well, Myriam, I must not be seeing all the posts from this list because I
> don't remember any wealth of posts to that effect. I haven't seen these
> repeated posts, which you mention, that explained all of that (from either
> "we" or you). I have seen you make comments (often they seemed 
> to me) in your replies to posts. Talking to people as if you were their
> school teacher, which appeared condescending to me. I have seen you 
post a
> simple comment, another thread hijack, when the poster might not even 
> what you are referring to and I've also noted you replying to a different
> thread hijack with a helpful comment (de facto approval), that isn't
> consistent enough for a moderator. You too need to follow the guidelines
> if you want to lead by example. Those are just a couple of examples but,
> in general, I think it would be better if you isolated your help replies
> from your moderation duties and followed the guidelines as strictly as you
> want them followed.
> > This means for most of the list subscribers nothing will change, but a
> > few here will have to be patient to get their posts approved by the
> > mailing list administrators for some time. That flag will be taken away
> > once it's not necessary anymore.
> Will this be arbitrary or will one have to actually violate one of the
> guidelines and what avenue will there be for questioning such a ban? Will
> it be done in open in the list or in secret? Is there a panel or will
> there just be one person making the decision?

This definitely will *not* be arbitrary. We discuss this before making any 
decisions, and I for one not take putting a moderation flag on subscribers 

> > There is a mailing list for all Ubuntu flavors available [2] - called
> > "sounder" - where random chit chat, bike shedding and such belong to, 
> > this list here can be used for it's original purpose, namely support for
> > users.
> So, anything *you* don't want to discuss is "random chit chat", eh?
> Recently one of the old members mentioned that there is an effective
> benefit of OT discussions and mentioned that it has been there for the 10
> years he has been taking part in lists. I too believe it and think people
> work better together if they can socialize a bit as they work.

I have been using mailing list myself for almost as long myself, and there are 
ones that are fine for this as some lists are/were used  for everything under 
the sun, while others are strictly on-topic lists. In Ubuntu we have a huge 
variety of lists to choose from, and Sounder is one dedicated for the OT and 
the banter and the like. I don't consider non-support but Kubuntu-specific 
topics OT for the most part.

> > Thanks for your understanding
> You will build the type of community you want, it may, or may not be
> exactly as you envision.

The community is much, much bigger than the few of us in here.

We want more people joining in the discussion, and for quite some time now, 
this list has been a small handfull of people posting amongst themselves. We 
wish to gain *more* user involvement by keeping this list more support 
oriented as opposed to a general chit chat list.  Sounder is for banter and 
the like. Why not use it? (You'd probably get more responses I would think as 

> I hope arguing with the school teacher and daring to reply doesn't get me
> banned but I fear it might.

Don't be silly.

> Shalom.

Clay Weber

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