sane

[Steven Vollom]

On Saturday 15 August 2009 12:37:12 pm John L Vifian wrote:
Trim
>
> Some of the things you have had the opportunity to learn in the last bout
> of emails are:It is not a response of anger, just my opinion
>
> The difference in left and right clicking a file in dolphin

Thank you I do this now.

> what 'less' is and how to use it in a rudimentary fashion

I have tried to use less, but it never has provided me with anything I can 
understand.

> How to turn line numbers on in 'less'

But I could not understand the less nor when or how to use it.

> How to turn line numbers on in kate

I do that and am very grateful, it helps a lot.

> when to use sudo and when to use kdesudo

I believe I use them properly now.

> how to search this list's archives with google

I don't think I will ever be able to do that about computer issues.  I haven't 
given up, I try every day.  I get diverted by links, and don't seem to know 
when to apply the link or not.  If you click on every link in an explanation 
and every link in every link from the initial page you go to, there become 
more links than there is time to read them.  I have not yet figured out how you 
do that task.  Certainly you can't follow them all; there is always new links 
in the next page.  Almost every time I search a topic, the first thing done in 
perhaps the first sentence is a link to something to read before continuing 
with the page that is supposed to teach you what you need to know.  When I 
click on the link, in or close to the first sentence there is a link to 
something else.  In both cases there are many links in the lines that follow.  
I become confused very fast.

> what the command cd does

I change directory when I remember it is needed.  Using the command line is a 
very new thing for me.  I don't get enough practice.

> what a path is

I know what a path is and use it all the time.

> what happens when you open kate with a non-existent file name

I may understand this now, but it is new memory.

> what happens when you run less with a non-existent file name

I still don't understand the use of less.  And after you read Bruce's last two 
emails, you might understand how difficult it is to re-ask a question.  
Apparently I am required to understand the first explanation.  So what do you 
do if you still don't understand?
>
> you should be able to open a file in a different directory with less or
> kate. For instance there is a file named dpkg.log which is in the 'log'
> directory which in turn is in the 'var' directory.  

Is there a way to trace a path going backward?  How?

> You should be able to
> construct a command line to open it using both less and kate.  Try it. 
> Note you don't need to use either kdesudo or sudo and shouldn't.

I am confident I can now do that in kate, but it is new understanding.  I still 
don't understand less.  If I am correct, I only need to use kdesudo or sudo in 
kate or dolphin is if I want to make changes.  I can read the data.  In the 
past, I have read documents using the word processor.  That I have used a lot.  
Kate is something very new to me.  I still don't understand less.  When I read 
the help on it, I became more confused.
>
> This is all very basic stuff, and you need to figure out a way to make it
> understandable to yourself
>
> > He said open kmail and type 's' and then what I want and it would locate
> > what I need from my email records.  That would be great if I knew where
> > in the kmail application I type the command in.

Now that I have found how to use the 's' instruction, sure, I feel a bit 
stupid, but when it was first explained, I had not yet used the search line in 
the kmail opening page.  Additionally it sounded like a command line 
instruction.  It never occurred to me that by simply pressing the 's' on the 
keyboard it would or even should open a window.  I have made enough mistakes 
and been warned enough to be careful when you type a command.

Perhaps there are other times I have typed a letter command without needing to 
type it in a search line or command line, or any place, then hit enter to get 
the result.  When I got the 's' to work, it was an exciting surprise and made 
me laugh.  I was very happy.

I realize now that I have been through some pretty advanced procedures with 
your help.  When I learn that this stuff is beginning information, I amaze 
myself for what I have done.
>
> You don't type it in anything.  The one caveat being that if you have more
> than one window open in kmail that the active window has to be the one
> showing your mail folders.  Just type 's'.
>
> You can also do the same by clicking "Edit" in the menubar and then
> clicking "Find Messages..."  

I found Find, but not Find Messages.  It is new for me.  I will experiment.  
Thanks!

> or you can use the icon with the binoculars

I couldn't find any Binoculars; is it on the kmail open window?


> which for me is on the same line is the existing search field.
>
> > When I typed in the word 's kdesudo' in the search line and pressed
> > enter, your email came up.  I was expecting to see an email that
> > contained the word kdesudo.  I know there are some in my saved emails. 
> > That is an example of how I would like to use the search bar.  Can it be
> > set up to do as I prefer?

So you understand, I was not trying to enter the command kdesudo, I was trying 
to search for the things in the folders that talked about kdesudo.  I wanted 
to confirm what I knew or should know about kdesudo.  I realize now that when 
you don't have a folder highlighted, the 's' instruction does nothing.  Before 
I typed kdesudo in the search line, and I was interpreting the term search 
like I could search the folders, I typed in an 's' and pressed enter.  Nothing 
happened that led to what I would have expected. Kdesudo was my second try for 
information.

I am way ahead of thousands of silent people unwilling to be called stubborn 
or stupid by asking dumb questions.  But I will bet that most of those who 
need the list are not using it for the embarrassment they will have to endure.  
You are around knowledgeable computer people.  I am around people who want to 
learn how to send an email, or find the answer to a question.  They would love 
to do what I am doing, but don't want to experience the rudeness of Bruce.
>
> To my knowledge the search field only searches the subject line of the
> emails in the current folder, and can't be configured to do otherwise.  It
> also has the annoying habit of opening the current email in a new window
> regardless if it matches the search.

All of you who know my reputation on the list are probably unaware how far I 
am from basic information, just because I have tackled many complicated tasks, 
with an enormous amount of help, I agree, but I, like one of you has said, 
have built my own computer since getting on the list.  I have installed 
numerous applications using the CLI.  When I started, I did not know how to 
even open a shell or know the many different terms used for naming it.  And if 
you paid any attention at all to my description of the use of Google, there 
are millions of people who are confused about when to go on the link as 
opposed to continuing reading the page for your answer.  There is no end to 
the links to follow in the first line or two of any link.  If you read all the 
links on the first line of a page, you will never be able to get to the second 
link of any page either, then the third.  There isn't enough years in a 
lifetime to get to the end.

For the life of me, I don't know how you do that, other than you know what the 
link is about and don't need to divert.  For me and so many others every link 
is something new, so you can never get to the end of the transfers.
>
> >...  Eventually I get
> > it, your way too, it just takes a lot longer with a lot of repetition. 
> > In reality, if you bang on a square peg enough times, eventually the
> > corners will come off and it will fit in a round hole.
>
> Steven do you learn by doing?  Do you learn by observation?  Are you
> willing to spend time learning things even if you don't immediately see any
> useful application of the stuff you are learning?  Would you be interested
> in some sort of tutoring?

Absolutely, that is about the only way I can learn.  That is how I have 
learned the little I know.  As Bruce would say, it takes 25 times for me to 
learn.  Well that is an exaggeration, but without instruction that you 
understand, it takes repetition, so your mind can grasp what must be happening 
when you do the work.

If, for instance, there had been practical need for me to remember and 
understand how to change directories using cd, the activity would have settled 
in, but until I understood that cd stood for change directory and that there 
was a difference between the term directory, folder and file, it was just 
something I did, because someone told me to do it.  An inexperienced person 
sees a manila folder in his mind when any of the three terms are used, until 
he understands their function.

My daughter uses a computer daily.  She has a very important job.  But they 
use Windows.  She knows how to get what she wants and needs and yet only 
understands a small part of what I have learned.  I crave what you offered.  
When I search a thing like cd, it is explaining how to change directories when 
I didn't have the foggiest understanding of what I was changing.  

When I learned to understand cd, I had installed an application called 
avimerge.  I had to learn how to cd, just to put the pieces together.  When I 
understood that -o meant output and -i meant input, I no longer forgot the 
necessary command to merge avi's.  When I learned that there could be no 
spaces between the letters of a command, excepting you put the words in 
quotes, I learned how that must be done, and the space that is necessary 
between the quotes separating two quotes.  But when I really learned, and 
after several edits in the command, was when the numbers started flying.  When 
that happened, I laughed for more than 5 minutes, and that is a lot of joy.  
With the little I know about computers I can make the commands for merging and 
splitting without thinking.  When I install Jaunty, there is but a brief pause 
when the Sun agreement comes up.  For a while it was experimenting to get the 
right item highlighted and approved, but after about a hundred installations 
it gets pretty rote.  Same with kmail.  Wget is one thing I am still confused 
about, but I have used it several times by cut and pasting.  I am sure in time 
I will understand it too.

When I was editing this email, I got the inclination to include the previous 
paragraph.  To read for better understanding, take a look at the last line of 
the second paragraph above.  It should have continued from there.------
Sometimes it appeared to be a folder, sometimes it appeared to be a file.  No 
distinction came early enough in training to keep me from looking like a fool 
when already I have installed applications or packages or programs, all that I 
had to learn about, when all were programs in windows.  Repaired broken 
applications, reinstalled the OS.  

And right now with my limited knowledge, I have a reasonably stable copy of 
Karmic working on this computer and can install Jaunty on my newer computer in 
just 14 minutes including installing the necessary updates.  I can configure 
kmail as fast as any other human, I have done it so many times, but it is 
broken right now, and the only solution I know is to reinstall it.   The ISP 
is working properly and configuration is perfect, but the computer will not 
communicate with the ISP.  And although it has been explained before, I do not 
know which files and folders to save so that I won't lose my emails if I 
reinstall or my folders which are more important to me, or my addressbook.  If 
and when I ask for help on this issue, I will probably annoy a very good 
friend, Goh Lip who walked me through it and Eberhard too.  I am so sorry, but 
I lost my records in one of the reinstalls and will have to try the archives 
for the list, to see if I can avoid re-asking the questions.  And Bruce, who 
shouldn't be wasting his time on my posts will probably there with a two page 
scathing.

The last time I needed to use kate to edit the sources I was able to correct 
the problem, but quite frankly was experimenting a bit when I knew it was 
dangerous, because I was in sudo, and corrected the mistake by comparing the 
line with the error, to other lines in the list. I didn't know if I could 
delete anything without screwing things up.  I didn't know if removing the '>' 
that was all it took to fix the problem or would cause permanent damage to the 
application.  I just gambled and removed it.  Shortly after I did that, I got 
a reply to an email where I showed line 58, which I might add changed from the 
original line 62 when the problem first surfaced.  It wasn't until today that I 
realized that the sources.list was the same as the kpackagekit GUI version of 
the same directory or folder, I am still not sure which it is, directory or 
folder.

You have no idea how many people there are in worse condition than me and want 
to change that situation.  How many of you would want to be openly embarrassed 
like I was with Bruce?  How many of you would even ask a basic question?  You 
are fortunate, you can not be humiliated like that by a practicing sadist.  
You have too much experience and knowledge to have to face him.
>
> If you are going to continue using the command line you really need to have
> some basic grasp of what the commands are doing, or you should stop using
> the command line at all.  

But by quitting just because it is difficult would destroy one of my main 
objectives.  I have learned more than you know and less than you assume.  I 
have been working blind most of the time.  And when I ask too many, what you 
all consider stupid questions, a Bruce surfaces and tries to break my spirit.

With my minute knowledge, I use the CLI 99.9% of the time.  And now that I 
know that sources.list is sources.list instead of sources.lst, and that it is 
the same as the one in the GUI, I will start learning how to enter PPA's and 
get Keys using the command line, until that becomes easy.

It won't be another year and I will be more like you than I am like myself.  
That is providing I don't get filtered from help.

> Most things can be accomplished in the GUI and it
> should be extremely rare that  you would actually need to use the command
> line.
I believe that most users are incompetent because of the GUI.  The GUI make 
everything easier,  except to fix something.  And for those who don't have much 
extra money, they can't afford technical help.  I wouldn't have had a chance 
without this list.
>
> > Is the search I need a boulean (sp) search.  I heard that was the google
> > browser search type?

When I used that term, I was under the impression that Google used a boulean 
search, and it was the best.  I suspected it might be an excellent way to 
search through emails, and if it was an application, perhaps I could add it to 
my computer.

Bruce and Donn appear to be important servants of the list, but they do not 
measure up to the quality of the others, at least not to someone of lesser 
experience.   I personally don't want any future help from either of them.  
They are too cruel.  Thanks if you are willing to continue to help me.  I so 
appreciate most of you.  This tutorial idea is great, but remember I have 
tried a bit of that too, and when I did, even it was too far over my head.  
Nonetheless, I have learned a lot from the List, and I think I might be able 
to handle them now.

When many of you were where I am, you were working on 25mhz computers with 8mb 
of ram.  You barely needed a hard drive, and are partly responsible for 
creating some of the confusing terminology that exists as common today.  
Consider how difficult it might be to enter when I did.  I suppose some would be 
with 200mhz computers and 35mb of ram and a 500mb HDD.  But you get my point.

I am very happy with where I am  today.  I am planning to move back to San 
Diego in the near future.  When there, I will teach my children and 
grandchildren what I know to try help them through the learning curve.  I am 
so very grateful to you who have a heart and a little compassion and not so 
much killer instinct in your nature.

Much love and gratitude,

Steven
>
> ??? what are you trying to ask here?
>
> John Vifian