[OT rude or not, a different opinion] -Re: Beta 8.10 released

Ignazio Palmisano ignazio_io at yahoo.it
Sat Oct 11 13:23:57 BST 2008


Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> Hello, thanks for discussing all of this
> 
[snip]
> I am glad to hear that some people do not get affected by what I said and how I said it and are trying to understand the meaning in fact though it was intended to suggest that the person should read once again what I was trying to say about kde3 especially not presuming that I do not have a clear motivation behind.
> If you tend to make false presumptions it's most probably that you're on the way getting dumb. If you are not sure or don't know why I say something you should ask.
> There is always a distortion between intention and understanding intentions.
> 

I have to disagree with this argument: no one knows in detail what's in 
somebody's else head, and it's not up to the listener to ask for 
clarifications for every communication, it's up to the speaker to try to 
convey as much information as possible, so that the meaning of what's 
said is as unambiguous as possible. Wherever there is a hole in the 
communication, there is the possibility of misunderstanding, and what 
people do is fill up the holes with what *seems* most appropriate. As 
many have already said, email is a poor way to express feelings 
accompanying words, unless one tries really hard, which usually means 
very long emails.

(Side note: someone making false assumptions is not necessarily becoming 
dumb. The number of false assumptions is greater than the number of 
correct assumptions, therefore it's perfectly possible to assume the 
wrong thing while being perfectly smart and rational - or the opposite. 
All the more reasons to try and leave as little ambiguity in the message 
as possible)


> So I can not say that I was thinking a person was dumb or anything like this, but that this person made a false presumption not trying to understand why something is being said by me, not even asking why I say it.
> 
> I should also agree that in this context it might be interpreted as rude, but only if people are "sick of fake political correctness" or "fake politness" (as I said). In fact it depends (I think/my personal opinion) that people with different social background are getting more or less affected by what I say. So as I said the truth is somehwere in the middle.
> 

Fake politeness is useless, in this we agree. But if you disagree with 
someone else's ideas, you attack the ideas, not the person. That's not 
fake politeness, that's respect. (it's not meant to be a scolding, I'm 
not referring to what has been said; the technique of attacking a person 
whose ideas we don't share is old and well known, the exact term escapes 
me - is it "ad personam"?)

> And by writing this I mean that those people should learn, that there is something else than the shine world in the west and when things change they will get confronted by more rude and eveil things then a question like "did you get the point?"
> 

This is a non sequitur. Who says politeness, fake or otherwise, is a 
distinctive trait of the west? You seem to be making statements which 
are not restricted to Linux or computers at large. How does that connect 
with the topic? Seriously, I'm curious to hear opinions on international 
issues, and the more varied the sources the better, but why on this 
list? (Yes, we are already off topic, I know - I would like to continue 
the discussion offlist, if that's fine with you)

I.

> In fact all of this is very helpful to me
> 
> thanks for all of your opinions
> 
> regards
> 
> 
>       
> 




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