Installing and newbies

[Derek Broughton]

Neil Winchurst wrote:

> On Thu, 08 May 2008 11:34:05 -0300
> Derek Broughton <news at pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> 
>> 
>  Konqueror isn't the KDE file manager any more (personally, I think
>> that's a crime, but it's a choice that the KDE developers - not Kubuntu -
>> has made).
> 
> It is still the file manager for me.

And for me, but the people guiding the development of KDE think Dolphin's
the way to go, and so that's what we have.  There are plenty of good
arguments in their support, but not as many as, imo, against.
> 
>  And the install CD _should_ be in sources.list by default.
> 
> Why is that? If I am going to install something I don't want the
> version that is on the install CD because it might by now be out of
> date. I want the version from the repositories. Or am I missing
> something here?

I think so.  You _don't_ really want the version from the repositories, you
want the most _recent_ version.  Hundreds of packages in hardy will never
be upgraded during the life of hardy - so if they're on the CD (not all
will be) why shouldn't you give the user the option to get it off their CD
rather than going out to the web?
> 
>   Yes, printers should be automatically discovered, but printer
> manufacturers are _so_ bad about providing drivers that it's a
> miracle _any_ of them work.
> 
> I commented on that because my printer is quite old and it was found
> for me automatically when I installed Edgy eighteen months ago.

OK, I take it back - if it was found installing edgy, you're absolutely
right that it should still be found now.  One for you :-)

> The kmix problem is similar - most soundcards > work out of the box,
> but if manufacturer's won't properly support Linux,
>> it's not Ubuntu's fault.
> 
> There has been some comment on the list recently about sound not
> working after an install, so it's not just me.

Sound is, ime, the touchiest issue in Linux - but it's not Kubuntu.  I don't
_dare_ touch anything to do with sound, because it 
> 
>> > 
>> > The following programs were not included with the install so I added
>> > them afterwards :-
>> > 
>> > firefox, thunderbird, opera, gnucash, kedit, kdf, mysql, gimp, Sun
>> > java, flash.
>> 
>> Not a single one of those _belongs_ in a default install.  Konqueror is
>> KDE's browser, Kontact is it's PIM, kedit is a crippled little brother of
>> kate, mysql is a full-scale RDB (how many _geeks_ even need one of
>> those), java _wasn't_ free (iirc, it is now, but still may not be
>> redistributable from Canonical servers), gimp isn't even a KDE app, and
>> flash is just evil. kdf has _some_ value, but I'm still not sure it
>> belongs in the default
>> install.  I use it rarely.
>> > 
> Well we will just have to disagree here. I never use konqueror as a
> browser only as a file manager, nor kontact nor kmail.

That's fine, but they're not KDE apps.  That's like complaining that Windows
didn't come with Netscape installed (oh, wait, there was a whole federal
anti-monopoly case about that...).  It's not a KDE distro's place to decide
what non-KDE apps you want - and no matter what that court found, there
isn't any good reason why Microsoft should install any other vendor's
browser in Windows.  If you don't want KDE, there's a whole Gnome Ubuntu
version available.

> For me Firefox 
> and Tbird should be default installs and most certainly the Gimp. 

Then you install them - they don't belong in Kubuntu - and most _certainly_
the Gimp.  It might be head and shoulders above Krita, but it's not a KDE
app.
 
> Java *is* included in the repos and it installed very easily. 

Sun Java is in *multiverse*.  I don't think you'll find any packages from
multiverse in the default install.  In fact, I think you won't even find
any packages from universe.  Packages are in multiverse specifically, in
part, because their licensing precludes them being part of ubuntu.  Ubuntu
could install other javas, but imo that would be even less supported by the
users.  I'm annoyed enough about the gcj garbage that came with hardy
(because some packager decided one of the lib*-java packages
should "recommend" gcj).
-- 
derek