Kmenu and KDE4

[Billie Walsh]

Clay Weber wrote:
> On Sat December 20 2008 4:00:26 pm Billie Walsh wrote:
>   
>> Clay Weber wrote:
>>     
>>> On Sat December 20 2008 9:34:27 am Billie Walsh wrote:
>>>       
>>>> It's very obvious that the devs don't pay attention to any user lists.
>>>> They should. If they had they wouldn't have been so quick to choose
>>>> SUSE's Kickoff. There was a major flap when SUSE released it on the SUSE
>>>> users lists. The majority of SUSE users don't use it and hate it.
>>>>         
>>> yes, from what I hear from discussions with various devs, they do not
>>> usually follow <foo>-user lists, as they are generally supposed to be for
>>> user-to-user support..
>>>       
>> I don't know. I would think that if I was poring heart and soul into
>> something for others to use I would like to have some sort of indication
>> of their feelings about what I'm doing. If I'm not going in the
>> direction that is most beneficial then I would like to think I would
>> take it that direction. It's kind of a customer service type of thing.
>> If your a retail business and you stop listening to the customers needs
>> and start dictating to the customer, well, there's another store just
>> down the street. I've already seen many, at least threatening to, jump
>> off the KDE ship over this new KDE. There's another interface available.
>>
>> --
>> Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans.
>>     
>
> Unfortunately, that is a bad analogy as the 'customer' and 'retail business' 
> concepts do not really fit, as each individual person who contributes (in 
> whatever capacity) to an open source project does  so for their own personal 
> reasons, even in a project as large in scope as KDE. They are not necessarily 
> tied to 'customer service' if you will.
>
> http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/category/kde/
> the above link, and the comments, show some good insight from both sides in 
> relation to Lancelot.
>
> Also please not that I am not necessarily disagreeing with you on the overall 
> subject at hand.
>
> Where/how do non-contributing users properly and sanely voice their concerns 
> where the developers can easily see them?
>
>   

Why is it a bad analogy. The devs, one, two, a dozen, have a product 
they want users, customers, to use. As long as the users are happy they 
use the product of the devs labors. When the devs stop making a product 
the users are happy with the users will go to another product. When the 
users stop using the product of the devs labors what is the point of 
making it any more. The devs provide a service to the users, a workable 
desktop. The users "pay" for this with their "thanks" [ probably not 
often enough ], bug reports, requests for new services, and suggestions 
for improvement.

I'm not so sure I completely buy the "I only do it for myself" line. 
They might do it for their own use, but then why put it out for the 
world to use. There has to be some satisfaction that hundred, thousands, 
millions (?) find pleasure in your labors. You do it about as much for 
them as for yourself.

Is there _really_ such a thing as a "non-contributing user". Some might 
contribute more than others but almost everybody contributes in some 
way. There have been many discussions on this list that have developed 
into bug reports. Not always posted by the person that had the problem, 
but a bug gets posted because they "contributed" their problem to the 
list. Maybe today I have a problem and get help. Maybe tomorrow someone 
else has a problem and I can help "fix" it in some small way. I think we 
all contribute in some way. Maybe not directly, but still take part in 
making this work.

I think we are having a nice discussion.

-- 
Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans.