KDE 3.5.6 released w Kubuntu packages

[Donn]

> I'm cool - you objected that you weren't lying, and I tried to point out
> that I never thought you were, simply that if Ubuntu were to say what you
> wanted _they_ (imo) would be lying.
I was putting out a suggestion based on what had been talked about earlier and 
by calling that suggestion a "lie" I perceived you to be aggressive. Rather 
than actually reading my posts and taking the time to see my point you have 
come down from on-high like a tonne of bricks.

> There wasn't a question (well, there was, but it was purely rhetorical).
> I'm saying that I can do with Ubuntu exactly what I would do with Windows.
> That is not always the case, I accept, but it is with firefox.  I'm not
> even going to bet about that part, it's a fact - the bet was simply that
> for Firefox the download would be on the same page.
Okay -- I'll say it again : Firefox 2 the Linux binary from the official site 
*does* run on Dapper -- for a while. It crashes. This is my direct experience; 
I might be alone in this. I don't know why it does so. However this is not 
the gist of what I have been talking about recently.

> You're complaining that you can't get updated 
I am not complaining. Please don't presume to speak for my intentions.

> You need to be more polite.
Yes Sir! 

> I disagree.  You have argued that Ubuntu is not as user-friendly as Windows
> because it doesn't provide continuous updates to non-Ubuntu software.
Okay -- I'll lay it all out again:
My "argument" is now (since I admitted my change in position due to recent 
education on the subject) that there is a disconnect for new users who have 
come from Windows. 
I am saying that *if* Ubuntu is aiming at replacing 
Windows (which seems to be the tacit aim, although I could be wrong) then 
it's my opinion that there is a problem when it comes to using the latest 
versions of software on the current version of Ubuntu you happen to run.

I built this upon my prior discussions on the reasons why Gnu/Linux has 
trouble running certain software. It is a simple fact that a distro will age 
rapidly and in Ubuntu-land (and Fedoraville too) each "upgrade" is virtually a 
new distro. This leaves "islands" of users behind as the newer apps available 
in the repos are not available for them. Witness Firefox 2 which is not 
available for Dapper.

My focus is not even so much on the repos, it's on the surprise and 
disappointment to a new user when they realize that they have hit a 
version-limit on the apps they use. 

In the Windows world it is perfectly natural to keep moving up to the latest 
versions of apps. One typically experiences no problem at all doing so. It is 
the standard and natural order of things. The authors of those apps are happy 
too because their users are mostly keeping pace with their development and 
bug reports are more on-target.

Now that user comes to Ubuntu. All is fine for 6 months, perhaps a year. They 
rely on the apps in the repos because Synaptic and apt-get are emphasized. 
(Actually going to a website and downloading an install file is not common on 
Linux.) The app terrain is foreign to a new user; they have funny names and 
oddball requirements. It's natural to use Synaptic, for example, to get a 
feel for the choices.
So, if the user is happy and makes it to the end of a year and then sees that 
ZingBling 2.5 is out and they check their Synaptic and it only shows 2.1 and 
they never see any new update icons for it, they may get a little worried. 
Now they go to ZingBling's website and find the Gnu/Linux binary and this is 
where the mellow software experience meets the cold hard ground of library 
hell and package formats and configure && make and outright crashes.

I found (on Fedora 3) that even if I tried to build from source, the dep 
spiral was too complex to fulfill. (I was trying to use Inkscape 0.44). The 
autopackage did not work. The source could not compile. The repo did not 
offer it. The authors told me to move my distro to a newer version.

That's what I am talking about. New users will not glibly accept the "Well you 
can stick to version 2.1 of ZingBling or you must update Ubuntu."
"But I can run ZingBling 2.0 on Windows 98?"

That's the disconnect. That's what I was addressing. I was saying *perhaps* 
there should be wording (in plain English, sans Linuxy buzzwords 
like "Debian") in the opening introduction to Ubuntu.

Sure, new users will have to adjust to the reality and the operational facts 
of Ubuntu, this is about pre-warning them on this one issue.

Now, I could be totally wrong, but it's merely a discussion.

(pant pant pant)

> The discussion started here, it stays here.  I don't move threads because
> someone else can't handle filtering.
Fine, I assumed that was a mod telling us to move it to another list.


/d
PS -- If this CC's you then it ain't me doing it. I made sure only the list 
was in the To field in kmail.