KDE 3.5.6 released w Kubuntu packages

[Donn]

> I'm not sure I'd expect the above users to be updating KDE anyway.
> Surely to those users KDE is part of the operating system rather than
> an app.
Yeah - I would put KDE in the O/S category. This thread kind of developed from 
an earlier comment about the latest KDE not being available on Dapper. Still, 
if it can be (reasonably) available I think it should be.

> Now I don't understand packaging, but isn't it relatively trivial to
> install 'unsupported' versions of apps on ubuntu by hand anyway
> (whether from a deb or from source)?
Yes and no. I have found Firefox 2 and Open Office to be kind of "semi static" 
in that they bring a bunch of libs and stuff with them and they can run out 
of a single directory. That's great. It even makes me wonder why they cannot 
then be brought swiftly into repos for old versions of Ubuntu. But, here's a 
possible reason, FF2 on Dapper is pretty shaky. It kept crashing on me and I 
eventually zapped the directory.

> So wouldn't those people who /really/ need the latest version of
> something be able to get it despite it not being supported?
Yes, but then why emphasise apt-get and company? All my comments are in the 
light of the assumption that Ubuntu is trying to play in the same traffic 
that Windows plays in.

> > Now -- I am saying *IF* Gnu/Linux makes it impossible to do this *THEN*
> > it should be spelled-out and quite apparent in all Ubuntu documentation.
> > If it's not spelled-out, then many users (and I have experienced one
> > personally and read many more on the forums) will leave in disgust and
> > confusion.
> > I am saying full disclosure; here are our skeletons, watch them dance!
> They aren't skeletons - in windows world you would get App v1.0
> They would release a couple of intermediary versions, if at all.  I
> few bug fixes and security updates.
> Then 18 moths later they would release App v2.0 which may or may not
> run on the same version of windows, may not save to the same file
> format, may not be compatible with the same plug-ins etc etc.
I give that I may have had an unusual experience, but my Windows years were 
nothing like that. I use the example of my pal in Johannesburg who is still 
on Windows 98 and he runs Firefox 2.0. That's what Windows users expect, 
it's "natural" (as it was to me before the truth began to dawn.)
I never had a problem going from one version of something to the next. I used 
Dreamweaver 1 through 4. Freehand 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. Corel Draw - many 
versions. I used various browsers like Opera and Netscape, all with multiple 
versions. Oh I could spend ages recounting apps. They all worked no matter 
what Windows I used.
> Just try working in an office with old versions of MS Office on some
> machines - its a nightmare.
My last experience with Office was early in Windows 2000 days. I grant you 
that since then it may have become more difficult. A lot of this is 
intentional as Microsoft is starting to edge Pirates out.

> In FOSS you will get several releases over that time which gradually
> add features and enhancements.  This has several repercussions, it
> means, for instance, KDE won't be backported to dapper, it also means
> its harder to sell releases - there isn't a huge new feature set to
> sell to the users as they've been getting the features as they were
> produced.
Yes - I understand this and I really like that things get better. 
While I may want to discuss alternative ways that Linux could keep getting 
better without limiting app-life to distro-life, the current point is to 
question whether Ubuntu is properly informing the users about this issue.
 (I really need a better way to say that :) )

> It isn't (and this is what I think has offended some people) a
> skeleton in the cupboard.  It works differently to windows, that is
> all.
I hope my slant on the thing is clearer now. 

> You have highlighted however this 'feature' / aspect / difference
> about linux needs to be explained to new users more effectively.
Cool. I should have skipped to the end of the email before I began answering! 
Mea culpa.

/d