<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi everyone, I'm really happy to read all of your answer, and I agree with few of them , I'll try to explain why and when using eve few images with descriptions. Let's start from the beginning ...... <blockquote> <pre wrap="">Please not that we cannot ship some multimedia things like libav due to patent issues as a result of which apps like vlc cannot be shipped ( and by extension, same thing goes for chromium though I am not entirely sure about that, maybe someone can offer a better explanation of why we can't ship chromium as the default ). </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">Well, during installation process there are already few checkbox for extra contents, where installing with an available internet connection, the process will download packages from repository. So why don't use the same logic for all the packages we need to achieve our goal. I mean it can be on a separate checkbox or even more than one, what's the problem about it ? </pre> <blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Firefox doesn't really have good KDE integration by default which is why we've rejected it in earlier releases ( Plasma Download notifications, File Dialogs, Button placement, etc etc) As for Chromium, see the first couple of lines of this reply.</pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">I agree with you that Firefox has not yet a good integration on KDE but I think is a lot better to have a not perfectly integrated browser instead of a not ready yet software, where the integration is perfect but it simply doesn't works properly. </pre> <blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap=""> Even much better of course would be to gives, if possible, a choice during the installation process to set the Environment in few different ways </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">first run configuration dialogues are nasty, how would the user know what to choose? </pre> </blockquote> Well I guess a nice description in it's own language would be enough for anyone. Simple description like "Minimal Configuration - Just minimal desktop and applications will be set up, for advanced user who used to customize very deeply the KDE environment" or stuff like "Full Functionality - The Desktop would be set up with a lot of functionality where usually you will remove what you don't needs." or like "Learning Mode - Most of the interesting applications will be installed and few Activities especially created to teach you how to feel free to fully use the potential of KDE + Ubuntu Combination". Well , I did just few example just to give you an idea , but for sure a description would be enough even for new user to understand what to select..... <blockquote> <pre wrap=""> like Kruler, KcolorChooser, KCharSelect and so on..... </pre> <pre wrap="">Our images are currently full up for our (arbitrary) 1GB size limit, so any new addition means removing something such as a language pack. Having said that these kdeutils seem like useful additions and should not take up too much space. </pre> </blockquote> Well , like I said before....., I think we can download all the extra stuff we need during the installation process, so we have not a real limit of space to use, well, of course we cannot pretend to download too much but few mb more to download wouldn't be a problem , you don't think so !?! <blockquote> <pre wrap="">We don't like to clutter the desktop or panel (that's a general Ubuntu philosophy). Adding favourite plasmoids can be easily done by users and is generally best left up to them since a setup for one user won't be very useful for another. </pre> </blockquote> Yeah , I can understand the philosophy but you of course will agree with me that is even easier to remove plasmoids instead of adding it for new users , you don't think so !?! <blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap=""> I fill really comfortable with some "extra functionality" enabled like rolling up and down a window just within the mouse wheel, can be very useful if you used to work with a lot of opened tasks. Talking about buttons on the window decorations I use a lot the button to "keep Above Others", and I'm quite sure most of the new user not even knows it can be done, instead once is there it's really easy to understand how and when to use it. Another fancy and some time useful features that can be enabled by default is the ability to change the transparency of a window just pressing ALT and rolling the mouse wheel. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">First question to ask is why are these not turned on upstream? There's a danger with default like this that users will active them accidently and have no ide awhat happened or how to revert (like pressing win-tab). </pre> </blockquote> Well , I agree that some setting of this kind can be a bit dangerous, but if so ..., I don't really understand why using my mouse wheel on desktop is changing it , I mean for new user they just see applications disappears and most of them don't understand why ......... Anyway both of them can be implemented if just we explain our desktop at first run, just with removable plasmoids...... <blockquote> <pre wrap=""> I guess a second panel on the top of the screen can do most of the job </pre> <pre wrap="">Ug, we don't want to take up extra screen space better used by applications. Let the discussion continue.. Jonathan </pre> </blockquote> Well I don't agree with you buddy, I mean do you really think the current solution is the best !?!. Let me show you <a href="http://www.alexgrafic.it/images/examples/Vertical_Spacing.jpg">an example</a>. As you can see on my example the space you will use for Top Panel, is actually the space you save with menu on top, which is in my opinion much better, just because you will have always one application menu for desktop, the selected one and is even much cleaner in my opinion. <blockquote> <pre wrap="">Also maybe an animation like welcome screen can be shown. This does not need to explain everything, even showing just some links are also OK. For example: - Read Kubuntu Documentation, - How to find your way in desktop - How to install software - How to get help - Kubuntu Wiki Lastly, I really want Windows button on keyboards to work. Isn't it possible to attach this button to open KMenu? -Volkan </pre> </blockquote> Well I think we can put on main desktop a some content to helps, and it can be done I guess with a nice panel on Top Panel. I totally agree with you about the window button , I actually configure this button to use instead of Alt button....... Now let me show you my personal interpretation of kubuntu, well of course I use a really big resolution son I have a lot of space but it can be done as well in smaller resolution<a href="http://www.alexgrafic.it/images/examples/Optimization_Desktop.jpg"> just open the example and read the descriptions</a>. About optimization of desktop space, I work in web development so I used to check statistics of my customers, and what I can see is that most of the people use a wide screen resolution, and the most used at moment seems to be a 1366x768. It seems to me that in modern screens we always have some extra space on left and right side, and that's why I used to put bars button of KDE applications on left side. Usually I just leave on top bar of application the input text and components that cannot fit to side small position. Of course I can do it because I don't need text on icon , but maybe it can be uncomfortable for new users I guess. <a href="http://www.alexgrafic.it/images/examples/Rolled_Up_Window.jpg">Here an example of extra side space</a> . I really think we should discuss about "New Default Settings optimized for first time Users" in a better way, may in Kubuntu forum or wherever do you think is better and much easier to follow the discussion. <pre wrap="">Thanks again for reading me Alex</pre> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <pre wrap=""> </pre> </body> </html>