Drop PIM from the iso (default install)

Sat Sep 16 05:00:10 UTC 2017

Hello Kubuntu Devs,

I'm a silent fan of Kubuntu but I agree that KMail can be omitted from a
default install, as it jives with my practical experience out in the wild.

I've been installing Kubuntu on other people's machines since 2008. I've
probably installed it on about 2 dozen machines and most of those are still
working.

These are installs for regular people, not super technical, and who simply
want a clean, good-looking, intuitive, stress-free computing experience
without someone trying to dig into their wallet. Everyone loves Kubuntu :)

I've found that of all of those installs, only 3 people fit the profile of
a KMail user; they're all technically savvy, needing an Outlook analogue.
The rest use web mail and are happy with that.

I personally use KMail all the time and love it, but I do have to agree
that the Akonadi + MySQL backend is a non-trivial addition of system
resources and complexity. Part of my custom install script is:

   sudo apt-get --yes remove "kdepim*" "kde-telepathy*"
"telepathy-mission-control-*"

So for most people in my experience, KMail should not be part of a default
install.

~Michael

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Aaron Honeycutt <honeycuttaaron3 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> If we just want to provide a basic email we can look at Trojita maybe?
> Clay does bring an interesting point about that we're not Neon and should
> not always aim for it. At least on what we provide to our users anyway.
>
> We're more of a install and done distro, so our users can get work done.
> Now if it has a super easy way to install the PIM stuff like with QML and
> apt under it?
>
> On Sep 15, 2017 5:20 PM, "Clay Weber" <clay at claydoh.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll vote in favor of KDEPIM
>>
>> Some Devil's advocate points that do not necessarily indicate my opinions
>> on this topicg
>>
>> 1) An increase in resource usage, sure. But "hog" is open to
>> interpretation. Just how much time are we saving during login? Is this
>> still a thing? Don't we all just close our laptop lids and move on, and
>> seldom reboot our PCs?
>>
>> 2) How are we determining this?
>>
>> 3) and 4) how much is saved, and is this overhead really an issue?
>>
>> 5) Kubuntu is not Neon. Neon showcases Plasma Desktop. Kubuntu is a well
>> rounded easy to use distro that has extra software from the base Plasma
>> provides.
>> Note that "easy to use" is not the same thing as "newbie distro".
>>
>> 6) We could use  this reasoning  to remove a music player, irc client,
>> office suite, and anything else and have nothing to differentiate us from
>> KDE Neon.
>>
>> Also, as part of the Ubuntu family, shouldn't we have similar features or
>> at least similar sets of installed software? What are our brethren using?
>>
>> Are there alternatives? How does just Kmail and the address book do,
>> resource-wise?
>>
>> Lastly would this be a big slap in the face to the KDEPIM and greater KDE
>> community?
>>
>> Just some random thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my phone as I am at work for a while still.
>>
>>
>>
>> Clay Weber
>>
>> ------ Original message------
>> *From: *Clive Johnston
>> *Date: *Fri, Sep 15, 2017 8:52 AM
>> *To: *Kubuntu Developer Discussion;kubuntu-council at lists.launchpad.net;
>> *Cc: *
>> *Subject:*Drop PIM from the iso (default install)
>>
>> I know this is not going to be a popular subject for some, but I feel it
>> does need debated.  I would like to propose dropping PIM (all of it) from
>> the iso (Kubuntu install medium)
>>
>> Here are my reasons for doing so:
>>
>> 1) PIM is a system resource hog - It starts services in the background
>> which lead to longer waiting times to actually boot into your desktop.  We
>> tried to disable a lot of these services from auto-starting in Zesty and
>> found that our default install footprint (memory and speed getting to
>> desktop) was greatly reduced.
>>
>> 2) Majority of people don't actually use it - I am definitely in the
>> minority of Kubuntu users who actu ally do use PIM features, and I love
>> it.  However, most users do not use it but are having it installed by
>> default.  This means that they will then have to keep it updated, unless
>> they physically remove it.
>>
>> 3) iso size - PIM is a bit of a beast and is quite big size wise (when
>> you consider all the dependencies).  Dropping it off the iso would make the
>> total iso size smaller and will also make installation a bit quicker as
>> hundreds of extra packages won't have to be installed.
>>
>> 4) Upgrade overhead - Every-time a Kubuntu user does an upgrade, PIM will
>> need to be upgraded too.  For those on slower internet connections (like
>> myself) this can be slow and frustrating.  This is even more annoying if
>> you don't even use the PIM suite!
>>
>> 5) KDE neon don't install it by default - The official KDE distribution
>> don't install it by def ault.  Probably due to the resource hogging as
>> described above.
>>
>> 6) Any part of the suite can easily be installed via Discover, Muon or
>> Konsole by those who actually do want it.  In my opinion opting in is more
>> in line with Freedoms of open source software rather than opting out (just
>> personal opinion).
>>
>> I'm interested in other opinions and a debate on the issue, so please
>> reply to this thread.
>>
>> Clive
>>
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-- 
~Michael
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