qtchooser / qdbusviewer (ksnapshot / spectacle)

[Harald Sitter]

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:
> Valorie Zimmerman schreef op 25-05-2016 4:09:
>
>> Hello Xen, have you filed bugs against Spectacle in bugs.kde.org? The
>> developer does not (presumably) read this list. Ksnapshot was not only
>> unmaintained, but was rapidly bit-rotting, and also would completely
>> cease to function in the post-Wayland world, so the Spectacle devel
>> took what he could of the old code, and started anew with the rest of
>> the application.
>>
>> It is new, so bug reports are welcomed. It is fine to do the
>> workaround of making ksnapshot work for now, but that will not work
>> forever. Therefore, it will help all of us if you make the effort to
>> file bug reports and make Spectacle better.
>
>
> Filing bug reports does not make a program better, you know that?

They actually do.

> It only tells you what is wrong about a product. That does not improve
> anything.

It does. Everyone would then know that something is wrong with a
product because the bug report told them so.

> Most of these things are things you can discover in 2 hours if you try. That
> means the developer should already be fully aware of it and shouldn't need
> other people to tell him so.

That is an assumption on your part. I personally did a comprehensive
number of tests over a 2 day period and I observed none of your
complaints.

> He apparently sought to improve things that already worked well, and made
> things worse. Who am I then to say that he should do things differently?

KSnapshot does not work on Wayland as Valorie already pointed out.

> It seems rushed, like most thing are. Spectacle has better command line
> options than KSnapshot, and more fit for an actual screenshotting
> application. However using DBus makes it harder for users, not easier. You
> can use the DBusViewer to view most or all of the options available, but
> only if the application is already started, and most of them are useless to
> a user. It is a developer tool, but now prominently features on a user
> dialog screen for just adjusting a command or changing the command that is
> started on a shortcut. DBus is not something you should expect users to use,
> it is not a user interface. This makes it incomprensible and even impossible
> to even change the default. Now you end up with a non-configurable system
> for most users.

"Most users" is far fetched. "Most users" hit the printscreen key or
start it via the menu and then save the screenshot, and that's the
entire extent of their interaction with a screenshot tool.

> The issue with KDEs configurion was not lack of DBus, it was lack of an
> ability to efficiently select applications, requiring you to type a full
> path, even though you can only use applications (normally) that are already
> in the PATH. So what was needed was a better way to select in-PATH
> applications, but now we have DBus instead which makes it even worse instead
> of better. KSnapshot was controllable by DBus, just not started that way.
> But for a user, command line options are enough.
>
> Moreoever those are meant as a user interface instead of as a developer
> interface....
>
> So currently we see four changes:
> - better command line options
> - worse way to start it (DBus)
> - worse user interface
> - some failing functionality on the one hand, and added background
> functionality on the other hand.
>
> I mean no one needs me to see this, the question is whether they recognise
> it or not.
>
> I don't want to end up being the next guy to file a bug report and then
> being ignored.
>
> Moreoever the last bug report I filed spammed me incessantly. I had to take
> myself off its CC list because there were meaningless updates emailed to me
> daily. Now that was a very popular bug, you might say. But it just took me
> another 15 minutes to log back into the system after having forgotten my
> password or username.
>
> Requiring users to create accounts specifically for you is just not done.
> That is putting up barriers to entry, email suggestions or bugs should be
> free, not behind a walled garden.
>
> And moreover, I do not like BugZilla at all even if it is KDE's variant
> (there are much better systems).
>
> So no, I prefer to talk directly to developers. Sorry.

And Valorie informed you that the Kubuntu developer list is not the
correct venue to talk to the spectacle developer as he is not on here.
You can list as many defects as you want, sending them to this mailing
list will definitely not get them fixed, bug reports just might.

HS