Kubuntu and main/universe

[Colin Watson]

Hi Kubuntu folks,

At this UDS, the old "archive reorg" topic came up again
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation for those unfamiliar with
it; this page also contains some background for some of the Ubuntu
archive jargon I've inevitably ended up using in this post), and I had a
side discussion with Jonathan about a Kubuntu-related question arising
from it.

Ultimately, I still do plan to move all free software in the archive to
a single consolidated "main" component and express who supports what in
ways that are rather more flexible than (effectively) moving files
around in the pool; but it's clear at this point that I'm only going to
be able to lay the groundwork for that this cycle, not actually do it.
In advance of that, though, my question is as follows: is being in main
actually much more than an obstruction to Kubuntu development these
days?

Up to now, the packages that make up Kubuntu - at least the images you
ship - have been in main at least in part because Canonical was offering
some level of support for them, and thus we wanted to make sure they
passed an explicit review by our security team and the like.  Now that
that isn't the case, though, being in main basically means that
Canonical is requiring main inclusion review for Kubuntu even though we
aren't offering support for it, out of step with all other community
flavours, and thus imposing an extra chunk of work on you that nobody
else has to do.  That seems rather unfair!  When I spoke to him at UDS,
Jonathan seemed to feel the same way, and indicated that you might well
want to consider moving Kubuntu-specific packages to universe.

Now, this is one particular way to look at things, and I realise that
you could cast the question differently.  Since the main component has
that extra level of review associated with it and has a more restricted
uploader group, many people do regard it as having an extra claim of
quality.  I don't want to be the guy "kicking Kubuntu out of main"; if
we make this change in advance of a more sweeping archive
reorganisation, I'd much rather do it with your consent and indeed
enthusiasm.  My conversation with Jonathan suggested that this might
well be forthcoming, but I said I'd mail kubuntu-devel to see what other
people think.

Some other details:

 * What effect would such a change have on upgrades?  update-manager
   shows a "no longer supported by Canonical" message for installed
   packages that have been moved from main to universe between releases;
   does muon have anything like this?  I don't want to scare off Kubuntu
   users.

 * Moving to universe would imply not using language packs any more,
   because uploads to universe don't have translations stripped out and
   sent through the Launchpad translations system.  Jonathan suggested
   that this would be a desirable change for Kubuntu, but I expect that
   at the very least it would be a respectable chunk of work for
   somebody to unwind all of that infrastructure.  (As an aside, we'll
   need to think about how this would work post-archive-reorg if more or
   less everything ends up in main.)

 * A number of Kubuntu-specific packages would need to stay in main for
   transitive-closure reasons: source packages in main that, for
   example, build bindings for both GTKish and Qtish worlds will
   generally build-depend on both, which will cause those
   build-dependencies to stay in main along with all their
   (build-)dependencies.  I don't want to encourage people to start
   splitting source packages for the sake of this, so a number of base
   packages would stay in main regardless.  Still, lots of UI packages
   would be able to drop out to a component with less restrictive
   processes.

   I've attached a file showing a first pass at what the results would
   have been if we'd done this for 12.04.

 * Are there any effects on mirroring that you care about?  Right now,
   it's in principle possible to run an archive mirror useful to Kubuntu
   users with only main (and maybe restricted).  This change would mean
   you'd have to have universe as well.  On the other hand, Xubuntu et
   al have this problem today anyway, and maybe you only care about
   things like the major per-country mirror network which carries
   everything.

 * Would there be any "soft" questions of PR and the like that would
   need to be addressed?

Thanks,

-- 
Colin Watson                                       [cjwatson at ubuntu.com]
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Generated: Wed May 23 11:46:49 UTC 2012

 Source and binary movements to universe 
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 o language-pack-kde-mg: language-pack-kde-mg
 o language-pack-kde-mg-base: language-pack-kde-mg-base
 o language-pack-kde-mhr: language-pack-kde-mhr
 o language-pack-kde-mhr-base: language-pack-kde-mhr-base
 o language-pack-kde-mk: language-pack-kde-mk
 o language-pack-kde-mk-base: language-pack-kde-mk-base
 o language-pack-kde-ml: language-pack-kde-ml
 o language-pack-kde-ml-base: language-pack-kde-ml-base
 o language-pack-kde-mn: language-pack-kde-mn
 o language-pack-kde-mn-base: language-pack-kde-mn-base
 o language-pack-kde-mr: language-pack-kde-mr
 o language-pack-kde-mr-base: language-pack-kde-mr-base
 o language-pack-kde-ms: language-pack-kde-ms
 o language-pack-kde-ms-base: language-pack-kde-ms-base
 o language-pack-kde-mt: language-pack-kde-mt
 o language-pack-kde-mt-base: language-pack-kde-mt-base
 o language-pack-kde-my: language-pack-kde-my
 o language-pack-kde-my-base: language-pack-kde-my-base
 o language-pack-kde-nb: language-pack-kde-nb
 o language-pack-kde-nb-base: language-pack-kde-nb-base
 o language-pack-kde-nds: language-pack-kde-nds
 o language-pack-kde-nds-base: language-pack-kde-nds-base
 o language-pack-kde-ne: language-pack-kde-ne
 o language-pack-kde-ne-base: language-pack-kde-ne-base
 o language-pack-kde-nl: language-pack-kde-nl
 o language-pack-kde-nl-base: language-pack-kde-nl-base
 o language-pack-kde-nn: language-pack-kde-nn
 o language-pack-kde-nn-base: language-pack-kde-nn-base
 o language-pack-kde-oc: language-pack-kde-oc
 o language-pack-kde-oc-base: language-pack-kde-oc-base
 o language-pack-kde-om: language-pack-kde-om
 o language-pack-kde-om-base: language-pack-kde-om-base
 o language-pack-kde-or: language-pack-kde-or
 o language-pack-kde-or-base: language-pack-kde-or-base
 o language-pack-kde-pa: language-pack-kde-pa
 o language-pack-kde-pa-base: language-pack-kde-pa-base
 o language-pack-kde-pl: language-pack-kde-pl
 o language-pack-kde-pl-base: language-pack-kde-pl-base
 o language-pack-kde-ps: language-pack-kde-ps
 o language-pack-kde-ps-base: language-pack-kde-ps-base
 o language-pack-kde-pt: language-pack-kde-pt
 o language-pack-kde-pt-base: language-pack-kde-pt-base
 o language-pack-kde-ro: language-pack-kde-ro
 o language-pack-kde-ro-base: language-pack-kde-ro-base
 o language-pack-kde-ru: language-pack-kde-ru
 o language-pack-kde-ru-base: language-pack-kde-ru-base
 o language-pack-kde-rw: language-pack-kde-rw
 o language-pack-kde-rw-base: language-pack-kde-rw-base
 o language-pack-kde-sd: language-pack-kde-sd
 o language-pack-kde-sd-base: language-pack-kde-sd-base
 o language-pack-kde-se: language-pack-kde-se
 o language-pack-kde-se-base: language-pack-kde-se-base
 o language-pack-kde-si: language-pack-kde-si
 o language-pack-kde-si-base: language-pack-kde-si-base
 o language-pack-kde-sk: language-pack-kde-sk
 o language-pack-kde-sk-base: language-pack-kde-sk-base
 o language-pack-kde-sl: language-pack-kde-sl
 o language-pack-kde-sl-base: language-pack-kde-sl-base
 o language-pack-kde-sq: language-pack-kde-sq
 o language-pack-kde-sq-base: language-pack-kde-sq-base
 o language-pack-kde-sr: language-pack-kde-sr
 o language-pack-kde-sr-base: language-pack-kde-sr-base
 o language-pack-kde-ss: language-pack-kde-ss
 o language-pack-kde-ss-base: language-pack-kde-ss-base
 o language-pack-kde-st: language-pack-kde-st
 o language-pack-kde-st-base: language-pack-kde-st-base
 o language-pack-kde-sv: language-pack-kde-sv
 o language-pack-kde-sv-base: language-pack-kde-sv-base
 o language-pack-kde-sw: language-pack-kde-sw
 o language-pack-kde-sw-base: language-pack-kde-sw-base
 o language-pack-kde-ta: language-pack-kde-ta
 o language-pack-kde-ta-base: language-pack-kde-ta-base
 o language-pack-kde-te: language-pack-kde-te
 o language-pack-kde-te-base: language-pack-kde-te-base
 o language-pack-kde-tg: language-pack-kde-tg
 o language-pack-kde-tg-base: language-pack-kde-tg-base
 o language-pack-kde-th: language-pack-kde-th
 o language-pack-kde-th-base: language-pack-kde-th-base
 o language-pack-kde-tl: language-pack-kde-tl
 o language-pack-kde-tl-base: language-pack-kde-tl-base
 o language-pack-kde-tlh: language-pack-kde-tlh
 o language-pack-kde-tlh-base: language-pack-kde-tlh-base
 o language-pack-kde-tr: language-pack-kde-tr
 o language-pack-kde-tr-base: language-pack-kde-tr-base
 o language-pack-kde-tt: language-pack-kde-tt
 o language-pack-kde-tt-base: language-pack-kde-tt-base
 o language-pack-kde-ug: language-pack-kde-ug
 o language-pack-kde-ug-base: language-pack-kde-ug-base
 o language-pack-kde-uk: language-pack-kde-uk
 o language-pack-kde-uk-base: language-pack-kde-uk-base
 o language-pack-kde-ur: language-pack-kde-ur
 o language-pack-kde-ur-base: language-pack-kde-ur-base
 o language-pack-kde-uz: language-pack-kde-uz
 o language-pack-kde-uz-base: language-pack-kde-uz-base
 o language-pack-kde-vi: language-pack-kde-vi
 o language-pack-kde-vi-base: language-pack-kde-vi-base
 o language-pack-kde-wa: language-pack-kde-wa
 o language-pack-kde-wa-base: language-pack-kde-wa-base
 o language-pack-kde-wae: language-pack-kde-wae
 o language-pack-kde-wae-base: language-pack-kde-wae-base
 o language-pack-kde-xh: language-pack-kde-xh
 o language-pack-kde-xh-base: language-pack-kde-xh-base
 o libbluedevil: libbluedevil-dev libbluedevil1
 o libcue: libcue-dev libcue1
 o libfli1: libfli-dev libfli1
 o libggz: libggz-dev libggz2
 o libifp: libifp-dev libifp4
 o libindi: indi-dbg libindi-data libindi-dev libindi0
 o libindicate-qt: libindicate-qt-dev libindicate-qt1
 o libkdcraw: libkdcraw-data libkdcraw-dev libkdcraw20 libkdcraw20-dbg
 o libkdeedu: kdeedu-kvtml-data libkdeedu-data libkdeedu-dbg libkdeedu-dev libkeduvocdocument4
 o libkexiv2: libkexiv2-10 libkexiv2-data libkexiv2-dbg libkexiv2-dev
 o libkipi: libkipi-data libkipi-dbg libkipi-dev libkipi8
 o libksane: libksane-data libksane-dbg libksane-dev libksane0
 o libktorrent: libktorrent-dbg libktorrent-dev libktorrent-l10n libktorrent3
 o liblastfm: liblastfm-dbg liblastfm-dev liblastfm-fingerprint0 liblastfm0
 o libmad: libmad0 libmad0-dev
 o libmpc: libmpcdec-dev libmpcdec6
 o libmsn: libmsn-dev libmsn0.3 libmsn0.3-dbg
 o libmygpo-qt: libmygpo-qt-dev libmygpo-qt1
 o libnjb: libnjb-dev libnjb-doc libnjb5
 o libnova: libnova-0.12-2 libnova-dev
 o libotr: libotr2 libotr2-dev
 o libpqxx3: libpqxx-3.1 libpqxx-3.1-dbg libpqxx3-dev libpqxx3-doc
 o libqtgtl: libqtgtl-dev libqtgtl0.1 libqtshiva0.1
 o libreplaygain: libreplaygain-dev libreplaygain1
 o libspnav: libspnav-dev libspnav0
 o libxbase: libxbase2.0-0 libxbase2.0-dev
 o libzip: libzip-dev libzip2
 o loudmouth: libloudmouth1-0 libloudmouth1-0-dbg libloudmouth1-dev
 o marble: libmarble-dev libmarblewidget13 marble marble-data marble-dbg marble-plugins
 o muon: libmuonprivate1 muon muon-dbg muon-installer muon-notifier muon-updater
 o myspell-el-gr: myspell-el-gr
 o myspell-fa: myspell-fa
 o myspell-hy: myspell-hy
 o myspell-ku: myspell-ku
 o myspell-lv: myspell-lv
 o myspell-sk: myspell-sk
 o myspell-sl: myspell-sl
 o networkmanagement: plasma-widget-networkmanagement plasma-widget-networkmanagement-dbg
 o norwegian: myspell-nb myspell-nn wnorwegian
 o okular: libokularcore1abi1 okular okular-dbg okular-dev okular-extra-backends
 o openal-soft: libopenal-data libopenal-dev libopenal1
 o openbabel: libopenbabel-dev libopenbabel-doc libopenbabel4
 o opengtl: libgtlcore0.8 libgtlfragment0.8 libgtlimageio0.8 libopenctl0.8 libopenshiva0.8 opengtl-dev
 o oxygen-gtk3: gtk3-engines-oxygen
 o oxygencursors: oxygen-cursor-theme oxygen-cursor-theme-extra
 o parley: parley parley-data
 o partitionmanager: partitionmanager
 o plasma-widget-facebook: plasma-widget-facebook
 o plasma-widget-menubar: plasma-widget-menubar
 o plasma-widget-message-indicator: plasma-widget-message-indicator
 o plotutils: libplot-dev libplot2c2
 o polkit-kde-1: polkit-kde-1
 o printer-applet: printer-applet
 o pstoedit: libpstoedit-dev libpstoedit0c2a pstoedit
 o pyenchant: python-enchant
 o python-iniparse: python-iniparse
 o python-levenshtein: python-levenshtein
 o python-vobject: python-vobject
 o pyudev: python-pyudev
 o qca2-plugin-ossl: libqca2-plugin-ossl
 o qoauth: libqoauth-dev libqoauth1
 o qtscriptgenerator: libqtscript4-core libqtscript4-doc libqtscript4-gui libqtscript4-network libqtscript4-sql libqtscript4-uitools libqtscript4-xml
 o quassel: quassel quassel-data quassel-dbg
 o qwt: libqwt-dev libqwt-doc libqwt6
 o rdesktop: rdesktop
 o rekonq: rekonq rekonq-dbg
 o rocs: rocs rocs-dbg
 o skanlite: skanlite skanlite-dbg
 o speedcrunch: speedcrunch
 o step: step
 o superkaramba: plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba
 o svgpart: svgpart
 o swedish: wswedish
 o sweeper: sweeper
 o synaptiks: kcm-touchpad kde-config-touchpad
 o taglib-extras: libtag-extras-dev libtag-extras1
 o tmispell-voikko: tmispell-voikko
 o translate-toolkit: translate-toolkit translate-toolkit-dev-doc
 o userconfig: userconfig
 o witalian: witalian
 o xplanet: xplanet xplanet-images
 o xscreensaver: xscreensaver xscreensaver-data xscreensaver-gl
 o xsettings-kde: xsettings-kde
 o xuxen-eu-spell: hunspell-eu-es

======================================================================

 Binary only movements to universe 
 --------------------------------- 

 o apport-kde                                                         {apport}
 o apturl-kde                                                         {apturl}
 o cdparanoia                                                     {cdparanoia}
 o libenchant-voikko                                                 {enchant}
 o fonts-sil-abyssinica                                 {fonts-sil-abyssinica}
 o fonts-takao-gothic fonts-takao-mincho                         {fonts-takao}
 o fonts-tibetan-machine                               {fonts-tibetan-machine}
 o gpgsm                                                              {gnupg2}
 o myspell-he                                                         {hspell}
 o myspell-lt                                                      {ispell-lt}
 o jockey-kde                                                         {jockey}
 o kate kwrite libkateinterfaces4                                       {kate}
 o dolphin kde-baseapps kde-baseapps-bin kde-baseapps-data kdebase-dbg kdepasswd kfind konq-plugins konqueror konqueror-nsplugins plasma-widget-folderview{kde-baseapps}
 o kdebase-runtime khelpcenter4                                  {kde-runtime}
 o freespacenotifier kde-style-oxygen kde-window-manager kde-window-manager-common kde-workspace kde-workspace-bin kde-workspace-data kde-workspace-data-extras kde-workspace-kgreet-plugins kdebase-workspace kdm kinfocenter klipper kmenuedit ksysguard ksysguardd plasma-dataengines-workspace plasma-desktop plasma-netbook plasma-scriptengine-python plasma-widgets-workspace systemsettings{kde-workspace}
 o kdepimlibs5                                                    {kdepimlibs}
 o cervisia cvsservice kapptemplate kcachegrind kdesdk kdesdk-dbg kdesdk-dolphin-plugins kdesdk-kio-plugins kdesdk-misc kdesdk-strigi-plugins kmtrace kompare kpartloader kuiviewer lokalize umbrello{kdesdk}
 o libjpeg-turbo-progs                                         {libjpeg-turbo}
 o libjpeg-progs                                              {libjpeg8-empty}
 o lirc                                                                 {lirc}
 o kdeaccessibility kdeedu kdegraphics kdegraphics-libs-data kdeutils{meta-kde}
 o myspell-hr                                                     {myspell-hr}
 o libmysqld-pic                                                   {mysql-5.5}
 o network-manager-kde                  {networkmanagement (0.9.0.1-0ubuntu2)}
 o myspell-af myspell-it myspell-sw myspell-th{openoffice.org-dictionaries (1:3.3.0~rc10-2ubuntu3)}
 o pinentry-qt4                                                     {pinentry}
 o plymouth-theme-kubuntu-text                                      {plymouth}
 o gstreamer0.10-qapt qapt-deb-installer                                {qapt}
 o libqscintilla2-designer python-qscintilla2                    {qscintilla2}
 o qt-x11-free-dbg                                               {qt-x11-free}
 o libqt4-sql-odbc libqt4-sql-psql qt4-doc-html                      {qt4-x11}
 o libqtwebkit-qmlwebkitplugin                               {qtwebkit-source}
 o software-properties-kde                               {software-properties}
 o oem-config-kde ubiquity-frontend-kde                             {ubiquity}
 o ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu                      {ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu}
 o update-manager-kde                                         {update-manager}
 o usb-creator-kde                                               {usb-creator}
 o virtuoso-nepomuk                                      {virtuoso-opensource}

======================================================================