<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Thank you all for allowing me in on some of the thinking that goes on behind some of these issues. It was a fascinating discussion, and finally I see what you're up against. </div><div><br></div><div>Notwithstanding…...</div><div><br></div><div>I just installed today's PPC build of Lubuntu 12.10 from the live disk on my eMAC - the one with the wildly uncooperative Radeon 9200 graphics card. The result was a normal boot!.</div><div><br></div><div>No YABOOT arguments were required. I just pressed return after "boot".</div><div><br></div><div>The live disk itself required a YABOOT command line (Greg's). But the resulting install was fine. </div><div><br></div><div>Has somebody somewhere been working some magic?</div><div><br></div><div>Ron Mitchell</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On 2012-10-07, at 4:21 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Adam and PPC guys,<div><br></div><div>I'm going to give you the honest truth. We are now too late to sort the issues out. </div><div><br></div><div>I know that some of these bugs go back a long while, some are recent. I cannot see any help in my complaining to SABDFL over what has occurred after the changes after A3. </div> <div><br></div><div>I propose that PPC follows...</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br><font><font color="#cc0000">(23:14:36) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>That mail's very long and rambling, and doesn't really give me any concise statement of "this is broken; this is how we propose fixing it".<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:15:13) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>Thinking about this some more, the KMS option shouldn't be the default option on the live/desktop ISOs. The crashes/freezes with radeon can take some time to appear. It is quite conceivable that they could occur in the middle of re-partitioning, which would be bad.<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:15:13) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span><font size="3"> <br></font><font><font color="#204a87">(23:15:13) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span><font size="3">The more you think about, the more appealing the Debian way of doing things is: Just rely on the user to add video=ofonly if they want KMS. This is basically what the boot message says to do at the moment anyway, although it doesn't explicitly mention KMS.<br> </font><font><font color="#204a87">(23:15:39) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>what do you need from Debian for the fix to be proposed?<br><font><font color="#cc0000">(23:16:28) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>You implied earlier that there was a patch to the driver and/or kernel as an option, not just the command-line change.<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:18:13) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>did you read the email? He accepts that he was probably mistaken on a previous fix?<br><font><font color="#204a87">(23:18:50) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>Like I said, up until bug 1058641 I was happy for radeonfb just to be removed. This is even though I was responsible for having it put back (along with aty128) into 12.04 -<font size="3"><a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/949288%C2%A0.%C2%A0">https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/949288 . </a> Incidentally, can I ask the kernel people was there a reason why CONFIG_FB_ATY was missed off.....something I probably should of done that at the time?! Sorry! I don't know anything about Mach64/Rage cards, particularly their current state in 12.10....will they use fbdev too now? Can ubuntu-x confirm?<br> </font><font><font color="#cc0000">(23:23:32) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(204,0,0)">: </span>So, uhm. Reading through that bug, two things jump out. video=ofonly isn't the default, and only when setting this option do things go pear-shaped.<br> <font><font color="#cc0000">(23:24:01) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>The fix for it is, currently, a custom Xorg.conf, or a custom radeonfb command-line. Neither of those can be done automatically for the user in any sane fashion.<br> <font><font color="#cc0000">(23:24:46) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>If real code fixes for this can't be found in time, I think the people really familiar with the issue need to sit down and write some CLEAR release notes we can include for people about how to work around this.<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:26:54) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>so, we're pretty screwed? sorry to use that word. If we can get release notes out, I'll support them & then we can look at a fix as a matter of urgency... would that be okay from the guy who is liasion between -release and -kernel?<br> <font><font color="#cc0000">(23:28:18) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>I think release noting is the only sane way forward here, other than fixing the actual bug. We can't be writing out custom X config files for everyone, nor custom framebuffer inits based on the resolution and refresh rate they may want.<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:29:19) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>As we are too late to fix the bug, would you object to release notes?<br><font><font color="#204a87">(23:29:56) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>well, bugs...<br> <font><font color="#cc0000">(23:31:27) xxxx</font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#cc0000">: </span>I don't object to release notes, no. This is what they're for. In this case, though, the instructions for "how to find your video card and write a custom X config" and "how to switch to using framebuffer-only graphics, and configure your kernel command-line appopriately" are a bit long for a release note, so nice, clear, step-by-step instructions on a wiki page would be great, and then a release note that briefly describes the problem and points to said wi<br> <font><font color="#204a87">(23:33:23) </font></font><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#204a87">phillw: </span>Oh, do not worry about that! I'm also a wiki person, to get a set of steps in for new people will be clear 1., 2., etc...</blockquote> <div><br></div><div>So, can I ask that you good people get the wiki area up for the release notes? We will go battle on in 13.04 :) </div><div><br></div><div>For kernel & -x, the PPC team will be looking for the fix. Thanks for sticking with this arch :)</div> <div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Phill.</div><div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>