<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/08/2013 03:09 PM, roger peppe wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:CAJhgachwyx9o-GBVo3kh0DxEkhs3ztH6Zq279ONhp3Q-RS3=gA@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I feel that deploy-to is possibly a first step towards placement, which I think can be seen as largely orthogonal to constraints, although naturally they will interact, and we will need to decide how they should do so. </pre> </blockquote> Yea, and I think the fundamental issue here is that we don't yet have placement and co-location fully figured out. I doubt they are truly orthogonal (there seems like there would have to be *some* interaction) but I think your intuition that they are separate concerns seems reasonable, and is definitely something to explore. But we need to do something to support existing open stack deployments, as well as the needs of Canonical IS (using Juju+MaaS to deploy postgres). And we need to do it in order to get the great work that we've put into the GO port into usable form for them ASAP (ideally by the 13.04 release which is just a couple of weeks away!!!). Whatever we end up doing we need to make sure that we can do the "right thing" in the future when we fully understand what that is. And we need to do "something" now to support people who are actually trying to use Juju to get real work done in production environments. And that's the real issue here: <ul> <li>Will this lead us down a bad path from which it will be difficult to recover? </li> <li>Will we be painting --force-machine users into a corner?</li> </ul> My guess based on the discussions I have seen (and I fully admit I haven't been around long enough to remember when this came up for the first time) is that this is a compromise that will turn out OK. We get something a bit rough around the edges that serves users now, and still give ourselves lots of room to create a "proper" solution when we implement containerization and real placement logic. --Mark Ramm </body> </html>