Endpoints trials + MAAS charms

James Beedy jamesbeedy at gmail.com
Mon Nov 27 15:20:13 UTC 2017

Oooooo .... possibly I'm on to something (last item/very bottom)

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:53 AM, James Beedy <jamesbeedy at gmail.com> wrote:

> | I can also see that it took a few attempts to get there (the last
> machine is #40 :)
> It was a trying process to say the least - possibly I am one of few users
> who would stick around to see it through..... which is actually great
> because it creates a market for people to provide the service of providing
> At least, with the MAAS charm, you can 1) create and add your vms, 2) juju
> deploy bundle, 3) profit.
> Instead of deploy #40 which is probably #100 by now + tears + 10 trips to
> the datacenter + <add unpleasantry here>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:31 AM, John Meinel <john at arbash-meinel.com>
> wrote:
>> It does seem like Juju operating the LXD provider, but spanning multiple
>> machines would be an answer. I do believe that LXD itself is introducing
>> clustering into their API in the 18.04 cycle. Which would probably need
>> some updates on the Juju side to handle their targeted provisioning (create
>> a container for maas-postgresql on the 3rd machine in the LXD cluster).
>> But that might get you out of manual provisioning of a bunch of machines
>> and VMs to target everything.
>> We're certainly not at a point where you could just-do-that today.
>> I can also see that it took a few attempts to get there (the last machine
>> is #40 :)
>> John
>> =:->
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:17 PM, James Beedy <jamesbeedy at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Dmitrii,
>>> Thanks for the response.
>>> When taking into account the overhead to get MAAS deployed as charms, it
>>> definitely makes the LXD provider method you have described seem very
>>> appealing. Some issues I've experienced trying to get MAAS HA deployed are
>>> such that it seems like just a ton of infrastructure is needed to get MAAS
>>> HA standing using the manual provider deploying the MAAS charms. You have
>>> to provision/maintain the manual Juju controller cluster underneath MAAS,
>>> just to have MAAS .... ugh
>>> I found not only the sheer quantity of servers needed to get this
>>> working quite unnerving, but also the manual ops I had to undergo to get it
>>> all standing #snowflakes #custom.
>>> I iterated on this a few times to see if I could come up with something
>>> more manageable, and this is where I landed (brace yourself) [0]
>>> What's going on there?
>>> I created a model in JAAS, manually added 3 physical hosts across
>>> different racks, then bootstrapped 4 virtual machines on each physical host
>>> (1 vm for each postgresql, maas-region, maas-rack [1], juju-controller
>>> (juju controllers for maas provider, to be checked into maas)) on each host.
>>> I then also added my vms to my JAAS model so I could deploy the charms
>>> to them (just postgresql and ubuntu at the time - the MAAS stuff got
>>> manually installed and configured after the machiens had ubuntu deployed to
>>> them in the model).
>>> (ASIDE: I'm seeing I could probably do this one better by combining my
>>> region and rack controller to the same vm, and colocating the postgresql
>>> charm with the region+rack on the same vm, giving me ha of all components
>>> using single vm on each host.)
>>> I know there are probably a plethora of issues with what I've done here,
>>> but it solved a few primary issues that seemed to outweigh the misuse.
>>> The issues were:
>>> 1) Too many machines needed to get MAAS HA
>>> 2) Chicken or egg?
>>> 3) Snowflakes!!!
>>> 4) No clear path to support MAAS HA
>>> My idea behind this was such that by using JAAS I am solving the chicken
>>> or the egg issue, and reducing the machines/infra needed to get MAAS HA.
>>> Deploying the MAAS infra with Juju eliminates the snowflake/lack of
>>> tracking and chips at the "No clear path to support MAAS HA".
>>> Thanks,
>>> James
>>> [0] http://paste.ubuntu.com/25891429/
>>> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/26058033/
>>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Dmitrii Shcherbakov <
>>> dmitrii.shcherbakov at canonical.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi James,
>>>> This is an interesting approach, thanks for taking a shot at solving
>>>> this problem!
>>>> I thought of doing something similar a few months ago. The problematic
>>>> aspect here is the assumption of having a provider/substrate already
>>>> present for MAAS to be deployed - this is the chicken or the egg type of
>>>> problem.
>>>> If you would like to take the MAAS charm route, manual provider could
>>>> be used with Juju to do that with pre-created hosts (which may be
>>>> containers/VMs/hosts all in a single model with this provider, regardless
>>>> of how they were deployed). There would be hosts for a Juju controller(s)
>>>> and MAAS region/rack controllers in the end.
>>>> If you put both Juju controller and MAAS into containers, it gives you
>>>> some flexibility. If you are careful, you can even migrate those
>>>> containers. Running MAAS in an unprivileged container should be perfectly
>>>> possible https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/maas-docs/issues/700 - I am
>>>> not sure that the instructions that require a privileged container with
>>>> loop devices passed to it are relevant anymore.
>>>> An alternative is to use the lxd provider (which can connect to a
>>>> remote daemon, not only localhost) but this is only one daemon per
>>>> provider. For HA purposes you would need several LXDs on different hosts
>>>> and for this provider to support network spaces because you may have MAAS
>>>> hosts located in different layer 2 networks with different subnets used.
>>>> Cross-model relations could be used to have a model per LXD provider but I
>>>> am not sure this is the best approach - units would be on different models
>>>> with no shared unit-level leadership.
>>>> https://github.com/juju/juju/tree/develop/provider/lxd
>>>> With the new LXD clustering work it might be possible overcome this
>>>> limitation as well. I would assume LXD clustering to work on a per-rack
>>>> basis due to latency constraints while with MAAS in a data center you would
>>>> surely place different region controllers and rack controllers on different
>>>> racks (availability zones).
>>>> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/10/23/lxd-weekly-status-20-
>>>> authentication-conferences-more/
>>>> "Distributed database for LXD clustering"
>>>> If, by the time of LXD clustering release, there was support for
>>>> availability zones it would have solved the problem with a single control
>>>> plane for a Juju provider in the absence of MAAS.
>>>> An alternative to the above is just usage of bootstrap automation to
>>>> set up MAAS and then usage of Juju with charms for the rest of what you
>>>> need.
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Dmitrii Shcherbakov
>>>> Field Software Engineer
>>>> IRC (freenode): Dmitrii-Sh
>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 4:14 AM, James Beedy <jamesbeedy at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> I've got an HA maas setup at the datacenter, I had some trouble
>>>>> getting the full HA bits super solid in the past, and thought it
>>>>> appropriate to try charming up the new 2.3 MAAS snaps to see if I could
>>>>> make my life a bit easier going forward.
>>>>> I just took a quick first swipe at this, so please excuse the lack of
>>>>> any tests.
>>>>> I'm hoping I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here by a) possibly getting
>>>>> some feedback from @cory_fu on how I'm using the new Endpoints stuff
>>>>> landing soon in reactive (and disseminate that feedback so others will be
>>>>> in the know too), and b) possibly someone from @MAAS team might give me a
>>>>> nod if the steps I've taken here look to be moving in the right direction?
>>>>> # Interface and layer
>>>>> interface-maas: https://github.com/jamesbeedy/interface-maas
>>>>> layer-maas: https://github.com/jamesbeedy/layer-maas
>>>>> # MAAS charm
>>>>> charmstore: https://jujucharms.com/u/jamesbeedy/maas/8
>>>>> # Sample bundle
>>>>> sample bundle: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26046016/ - (only for
>>>>> reference, this won't actually deploy)
>>>>> # juju status
>>>>> `juju status`: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26045880/
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> James
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