charm-helpers fetch apt_install optimization

Marco Ceppi marco at
Thu Nov 20 18:25:45 UTC 2014

I have to disagree slightly, currently (and thankfully?) the current way
most charm-helpers aim to be included in charms is by embedding a working
snapshot of that version of charm-helpers. So merging this wouldn't affect
a huge number of charms, instead maybe the 5 or 6 at most that download
from pypi and of those none may actual be broken. As we rethink the
distribution model for charm-helpers (making it a debian package, having
actual releases, etc) this would certainly become a larger concern. The
changes look good at my cursory check, and I hope to review in more detail
later this week.

That said I just wanted to point out that I don't think a change, even as
"drastic" as this would have a huge effect on the ecosystem. As charm
authors sync charm-helpers they'll end up in our testing environment and
should be caught then.


On Thu Nov 20 2014 at 12:33:55 PM Charles Butler <
charles.butler at> wrote:

> Jay,
> I think you're touching on some important topics. Tuning and optimizing
> charm installation without fetching tons of extra packages around an
> install is certainly something I'm very open to experimentation with.
> This particular merge makes me suggest we run this through the gauntlet of
> testing scenarios - as if we merge this as is it effects the default
> expected behavior of the apt_install, with > 200 charms in the store - and
> im' going to venture to guess ~ 40% of those are python and charm-helpers
> based charms. This means a very expensive test would follow to ensure we
> don't break whats in the wild. If you were to refactor this to make that a
> parameter on apt_install, and leave the default behavior as is - I would be
> more confident in making the merge happen.
> All the best,
> Charles
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Jay Wren <jay.wren at> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>> I wanted to bring attention to a pending MR
>> which I feel can help charm-helpers.
>> By not installing recommended packages, charms will install packages
>> faster, with less unneeded packages.
>> This leads to faster deploys and faster experience for new users and an
>> overall better feeling about juju.
>> On a similar subject, I am asking for feedback from charm-helpers users
>> regarding apt related activity. I feel it might make sense use apt_pkg for
>> as many operations as possible. Would a merge request of this nature be
>> considered or is fork and exec to the more familiar system commands
>> preferred?
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Jay
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