docker hype and juju's future

[brian mullan]

Tim & Ramez...

First, Tim as FYI...   I thought this was a really great writeup of
Networking for LXC:

http://containerops.org/2013/11/19/lxc
-networking/?utm_source=Docker+News&utm_campaign=3faedf3ccf-Docker_0_5_0_7_18_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c0995b6e8f-3faedf3ccf-235708077

The above LXC networking writeup really went into some details that I'd not
understood well before.

I've been interested in Docker for quite a while but like Ramez I wasn't
 really sure I understood the excitement above what I could already do with
LXC CLI itself.

It was also good to see that Virt-Manager GUI now also supports
installing/mgmt of LXC containers as well as KVM vm's.

In my limited knowledge of Docker I think what I see as the biggest
technological difference between Docker and JuJu is:

JuJu is designed around the concept of deploying *"services".*

Docker is designed around the concept of reusable pre-built LXC containers.

*This "services" concept *in my mind *is much more powerful* as it takes
into account the fact that deploying a service can include:

   - Firewall
   - Load Balancers
   - Web Servers
   - Database
   - Cluster mgmt & high availability

>From what I have learned about Docker so far is that there is nothing to
really prevent someone from building a Docker file that could include the
above *but unlike JuJu there is no defined structure -or- structured
approach behind doing so.*

In JuJu there is a structure to defining/building a JuJu charm that "does"
take into account not only all of the above but the synchronization of the
different "servers" during startup, shutdown etc.

With JuJu, by design, you can also easily extend  what any one Charm does
through deployment of other Charm's providing other "services"... and with
JuJu by design... this will all just work together.

I've not yet seen anything with Docker that takes this approach.   But
maybe I'm not looking in the right places??

Docker is LXC based.

JuJu can deploy to LXC but it also can deploy to KVM, XEN, VMware, Hyper-V
etc architectures.

*Docker is a really great technology* and can certainly find uses in an
incredible number of applications.

JuJu is also a really great technology but JuJu takes a more holistic
approach utilzing the "services deployment/management" that IT departments
in Enterprise or even Service Providers are clamoring for in today's Cloud
market.

I feel that JuJu is focused on DevOps to a greater degree than Docker.

Chef or Puppet are also but I think JuJu's promise is greater than those
two because JuJu Charms can be written using Chef/Puppet, python or
anything else you can think of.

*The biggest buzz for Enterprise or Service Provider (SP) right now is in
the SDN area being termed Application Centric Networking. *

I can see JuJu easily being able to address that whole concept... with some
work to include "networking" more into the "services" concept.

Application Centric Networking focuses on the allowing an Application or
Application "service" to dictate the resources it requires to include:

   - Network QoS
   - Firewall
   - Load Balancers
   - Web Servers
   - Database
   - Cluster mgmt & high availability

Notice how similar Application Centric Networking is to the previous list
of JuJu above?

Cisco's newly announced Application Centric Networking approach called ACI
(Application Centric Infrastructure) based on Insieme.

Cisco's ACI is built around the foundation of creating a "Profile" for an
application service which defines the Application's:

   - Network QoS
   - Firewall
   - Load Balancers
   - Web Servers
   - Database
   - Cluster mgmt & high availability

At deployment ... this "profile" is pushed into the
compute/storage/networking infrastructure where
the requisite Virtual Machines/Servers are created, firewall configurations
set, load balancers installed, web application servers started/configured,
databases created and Clustering defined.

Where you read "profile" ... think of JuJu's upcoming/new JuJu "bundle"
capability.    To me that sounds alot like what JuJu attempts to do... yes
?

The ACI Application "profile" will also be understood by core Cisco's
networking equipment and all of the Application Service's networking
requirements will be configured

JuJu already supports OpenStack.    *OpenStack's Neutron networking
"service"* supports the concept of "plugins" to enable vendor specific
capabilities.

I believe Neutron will support Cisco's ACI via a plugin as it will support
Vmware' NSX approach or other vendor's approaches that are starting to
appear.

sorry for the long message...

my .02 only
brian
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