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Gustavo Niemeyer gustavo.niemeyer at canonical.com
Tue Jun 7 14:05:03 UTC 2011

> Sure, we're all abstracting things out and trusting other people with
> certain parts of the system. I'm not writing all the code that runs on
> my system, I'm using packaged code, etc.,

Right, exactly.

> but that doesn't mean you still don't have visibility on the changes
> being made or having control over what changes you're comfortable
> with.

Interestingly, it does mean as much.  Last time you upgraded the
kernel, have you inspected the code to see what were the actual
changes?  No, because that's too time consuming, too complex
to observe and understand it all at once, and because there are
good people taking care of that.  So, you choose to delegate
control over your production environment to these people.

Ensemble is way too young for me to request that level of trust
from you, of course.  What I'm pointing out, though, is that the.
idea that people want to know _everything_ going on is simply
not true.  Ensemble adds a layer of abstraction, and like all
abstraction layers, it hides some details.  Even then, if it
works well, and makes people's lives significantly easier, and
enables them to do things they couldn't otherwise, it will

> So fwiw, we can (and are) doing much of this in Puppet as well. I won't
> say it's as easy syntactically as Ensemble promises to be, but we do
> have services that we can scale up very trivially and other parts of the

Sure, in essence that's doable even with shell scripts.  It's
analogous to the way we also don't need packages or apt: they're just
a bunch of files in a tarball, and you can also do it by hand, or code
your own system if you want, as many have been doing.  Rolling your
own has good parts (e.g. you understand it all) and bad parts (e.g.
you maintain it all, and don't benefit of work others have done that
could otherwise be plugged in the system in an effortless way).

Gustavo Niemeyer

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