Redirecting back to list, for the sake of transparency. I will not respond to direct attacks and accusations. So I'll terminate my part in this thread here. kind regards, David Van Assche <a href="http://www.nubae.com">www.nubae.com</a> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:40 PM, R. Scott Belford <<a href="mailto:scott@hosef.org">scott@hosef.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I'm sorry, David, but you are now moving into the area of flaming, inciting, and trolling. Unless I missed something, it was made quite clear by Scott Balneaves about a month ago that Edubuntu was tracking debian-edu. Edubuntu has everything to with Debian Edu in that *ubuntu is but an off-shoot of Debian. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I am most familiar with Vagrant from his work as Debian's LTSP maintainer. LTSP is pretty critical to debian-edu, and that work is pretty complementary to Edubuntu. At least I always thought so. I'm totally okay if you want to attack me, troll me, discredit me, or question me. Perhaps it can go off list, though, unless there is a way for it to be less taunting. I have not included the list on this reply. If this is your last word on these subjects, you are welcome to stand on your words. Aloha --scott <div><div></div><div class="h5"> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:30 AM, David Van Assche <<a href="mailto:dvanassche@gmail.com">dvanassche@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > Its clear you don't really know what you are talking about. Debian-edu has > nothing to do with Edubuntu, and Vagrant C is involved with upstream LTSP, > he has nothing to do with Edubuntu or Debian Edu for that matter. As far as > Debian goes, Vagrant C has done some great stuff with simple-cdd (a cd based > installer) and LTSP[1] > > I'm curious though, what specifically has he done that makes you his #1 > fan....? I'm sure he's curious too :-) > > The people you should be mentioning are Jordan Mantha who has pretty much > single handedly done most Edubuntu packaging, triaging, and development. > Jonathan Carter Scott Balneaves, Alkis Georgopoulos and Stephane Graber > have also helped out a great deal, though I couldn't get into specifics. > I've probably forgotten others, but the point is these people don't expect > to be put under the stage lights, they just quietly do stuff, amongst the > bickering and complaining which drowns out anything constructive. > > "The story" has been mentioned on this list and others countless times, > though I'm not going to start pulling out references. I just know I've heard > it more times than I care to think about... > > Please stick to what you know, and stop confusing people who are genuinely > here to help... If you really want to help out, the list I mentioned a > couple of emails back would be a great starting point... > > kind regards, > David Van Assche > <a href="http://www.nubae.com" target="_blank">www.nubae.com</a> > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:53 PM, R. Scott Belford <<a href="mailto:scott@hosef.org">scott@hosef.org</a>> wrote: >> >> David, I could not care less about being "appreciated." The problem >> with Edubuntu has been the void the community was left with following >> some strategic Canonical decisions. I was in contact with the >> Canonical guys, they dropped the ball, and actually, we don't "all >> know the story." I don't see what is any more important to the >> community right now. The code base is now debian-edu, and I am >> Vagrant Cascadian's #1 fan. Edubuntu seems to be branding only, and >> we need to be clear about it. Are we submitting bugs to debian-edu, >> or are we repeating their efforts, re-tracking bugs at Launchpad, and >> calling it Edubuntu? >> >> --scott >> >> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:44 AM, David Van Assche <<a href="mailto:dvanassche@gmail.com">dvanassche@gmail.com</a>> >> wrote: >> > I was actually looking for real items you are tackling within our >> > community >> > (Edubuntu) right now! Outside that, yes your list of good deeds is >> > impressive and wonderful (Most of the so called leadership can probably >> > write a good couple pages on their good deeds too...) We all know the >> > story >> > of how you couldn't get in contact with the Canonical guys, and how this >> > has >> > made you feel unappreciated. But I think there's been enough repetition >> > of >> > that story for now, surely we can find more interesting things to talk >> > about >> > than the failure of communication during a meeting at one of the >> > UDSes... >> > (spilled milk comes to mind...) >> > >> > Anyway, this doesnt' really have much to do with giving perspective... >> > it >> > has to do with getting things done... all the perspective in the world >> > is >> > not gonna make any difference if it isnt followed by coding, >> > documentation, >> > bug squashing or the hundreds of other tasks open to volunteers... >> > >> > kind regards, >> > David Van Assche >> > <a href="http://www.nubae.com" target="_blank">www.nubae.com</a> >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:08 PM, R. Scott Belford <<a href="mailto:scott@hosef.org">scott@hosef.org</a>> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 8:56 PM, David Van Assche <<a href="mailto:dvanassche@gmail.com">dvanassche@gmail.com</a>> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Anyway, people like Scott (-not- sbalneaves) would do well to involve >> >> > themselves in 'fixing' the problem, rather than spewing destructive >> >> > criticism at every possible turn of events. All I've ever seen from >> >> > your >> >> > emails is reasons as to why the people who really are working on >> >> > things >> >> > (the >> >> > leadership you call them, though non would consider themselves that) >> >> > are >> >> > doing it wrong. If that's the case, why don't YOU show us how its >> >> > done? >> >> >> >> With the greatest of respect, please allow me to clarify why I feel >> >> that I have invested enough by now to have a valid, experienced, and >> >> urgent perspective. I am an advocate for users. I am one who sews >> >> seeds in my community in hopes of inspiring tomorrow's engineers and >> >> software developers. I am not a software developer, but I am a >> >> community developer. I am the one, and HOSEF is the charity, that has >> >> sent pre-installed Edubuntu computers to Western Samoa, American >> >> Samoa, San Manuel, Manila, and Isabela in the Philippines, orphans and >> >> women rescued from the sex trade in Cambodia, and given thousands of >> >> gnu/linux computers to individuals and schools here in Hawaii. >> >> >> >> When you are a foster child in Hawaii, or you have aged out of the >> >> system, you have possibly come across me indirectly when seeking a >> >> computer or a laptop. You got one that was tested and pre-installed >> >> with Debian Sarge, then it was Mandrake, then it became Edubuntu. If >> >> you have been lucky enough to go through my Computer Guts class, then >> >> you are likely a foster child who learned how to build your own >> >> computer, install software, and type a one page essay, 12-point font, >> >> no skipping lines, on what you learned. Chances are you were a 10-12 >> >> year old girl, and you are now only a few years away from having these >> >> gifts blossom for you. For about 5 years, twice a week, if you wanted >> >> hands-on help with open source software, you wanted to donate a >> >> computer, or you wanted to see what this 'linux thing' was all about, >> >> you found me waiting on you at a local school or business. >> >> >> >> If you are transitionally homeless, then you possibly got exposed to >> >> the K12LTSP at the Next Step homeless shelter. If you are homeless >> >> and on our beaches, as many are, then perhaps you have access to the >> >> Edubuntu (now Debian) computers, with a printer and scanner and >> >> covered by a free but filtered wifi cloud, that I manage in 4 City and >> >> County Park recreation centers. If you owe the State community >> >> service time, then you can serve our 501(c)(3) mission to promote and >> >> sustain FOSS by helping to set up our Free, donated, Gnu Linux >> >> Edutainment Learning centers. You can help to pick up or to deliver >> >> donations. Along the way you learn how kind and sharing those of us >> >> who care of FOSS can be. >> >> >> >> If you are one of our 300 schools in Hawaii without enough >> >> computers,or without enough knowledge, to bring the enterprise down to >> >> your size, for free, then you have been helped by me and the HOSEF >> >> volunteers. The school project that gave birth to Fedora, now >> >> K12Linux, is maintained to this day by me for the sole reason of >> >> perpetuating the shining legacy that it should be. In 2005 Hawaii >> >> became the first K12 school system in the US to offer Linux+ >> >> certification to its students, and if you were in school then, you had >> >> access to manuals and training due to the relationships I forged with >> >> Novell and our DOE. Lately, if you were Microsoft and you thought you >> >> were going to get America's only centralized DOE to use MS Office >> >> Live, then you were blindsided by how well-briefed and connected the >> >> Google Apps Education Team was when they swept in out of nowhere with >> >> a timely proposal. You see, I am the 'linux guy' or 'that open source >> >> guy' that all of these people turn to for help, for answers, for >> >> support, and more, for free. >> >> >> >> If you are Richard Stallman, John Terpstra, Bruce Perens, Jon "maddog" >> >> Hall, Larry Rosen, Allen Gunn, or Aaron Seigo, among others, then I or >> >> someone kind to HOSEF has paid for you to come to Hawaii and join >> >> guests like Andre Hill, CJ Coppersmith, Dave Pickens, Barton George, >> >> Horst Herb, Jim Thompson, our City CIO, Hawaii Legislators, and >> >> others, for our annual conference. While here you might have joined >> >> me at the Hilton Hawaiian Village where the world's A-List of Telecom >> >> Executives - Boeing, France Telecom, ATT, Verizon, Rogers, China >> >> Telcom, Korean Telcom, Orange, etc., etc., checked email and did their >> >> conference web-browsing on an "e-waste" 30-station thin-client email >> >> garden that I set up and supported for three years as a ubiquity test. >> >> FOSS passed in flying colors. I did, and do, all this as a volunteer >> >> service in reciprocity for the great software you help me use for >> >> free. I am hoping to inspire more creators with, and less users of, >> >> Free and Open Source Software. If I cannot pick up the developers >> >> torch, then maybe they can. >> >> >> >> The projects I am working on now are bigger than any of this other >> >> stuff. I am disappointed, David, that you would personally pile on >> >> like this without any awareness of or respect for the greater good >> >> that I am working for. I have admired your work using Opensuse and, >> >> in particular, your indexing and compiling efforts of late. I am >> >> friend to all, and I am a defender of the newcomer, the newbie, the >> >> person who wants to feel the vibe of Egoboo, and those who wish >> >> someone was here to help. Oh, and if you look at our website to find >> >> most of this, you won't find it because I hate, no, I HATE, no, >> >> actually, I kind of *HATE* the tedium of doing that kind of stuff and >> >> have long wished for a Bard and a Scribe. >> >> >> >> I am not sure if this is "how its done", but it's what I do. Last >> >> year, in August, during Linuxworld 2008, I addressed my Edubuntu >> >> issues with the most senior Canonical employees available at IBM's >> >> reception at The W. I set up meetings for Canonical/Ubuntu with the >> >> University of Hawaii's CIO and the City and County of Honolulu's CIO >> >> to catalyze a support-oriented relationship. Canonical failed to >> >> follow through. Wherever you are, seriously, go get the CIO of your >> >> State or your Country's leading University, and the CIO of America's >> >> 11th largest City, to agree to meet with people from Canonical about >> >> supporting a Desktop rollout only to get blown off. Do this while >> >> being the volunteer marketing and support department for Edubuntu and >> >> FOSS in general, and do it for about 8 years straight, and you'll >> >> appreciate why I find great offense that a volunteer in Ace came and >> >> left and all I see, again, is the circling of the developer clique. >> >> >> >> With Aloha >> >> >> >> --scott >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Stephen Leacock - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue >> > that I >> > shall some day die, which is not so." > > > > -- > > Joan Crawford - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I > earn, I spend." </div></div></blockquote></div> -- <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html" target="_blank">Ted Turner</a> - "Sports is like a war without the killing."