WikiSite - a discussion on how to structure the wiki

Ace Suares ace at suares.an
Sat Sep 12 14:09:50 BST 2009


Hi All, Especially Jordan,

A couple of days ago I promised to write a piece on why I am using
WikiSite in the restructuring of the new Wiki.

Jordan expressed his dismay about the use of WikiSite in the URL (name
space) because

	- it makes the URL longer
	- other teams don't do it that way

This discussion is to sort out why we can or can not use WikiSite in the
Wiki.

First off, I want to say that

	- I did NOT want to end up with WikiSite in the URL
	- I can get rid of WikiSite with some work (not trivial)

However, I ended up using it since it was almost impossible to use the
Edubuntu Namespace for restructuring.

ON NAME SPACES

(I am not yelling, it's just a medieval way to do bold in a text-only
email).


The wiki is a strange beast. It works with URL in the form of

	http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/BlaBlaBla

In further discussion we leave http://wiki.edubuntu.org away; more about
that at the end.

So we are using the name space '/Edubuntu'.

Other name spaces are /Ubuntu, /XenUbuntu, /Xedubuntu, /UBUNTU,... Quite
confusing and possibly very wrong, but we are not concerned with the
larger wiki, just with the part that is in the /Edubuntu name space.

There is also something called a 'root' namespace. It's '/' and it has
entries like /Edubuntu, /Ubuntu etc - these are the namespaces - but it
has also entries like /privileged-nautilus, /AcidRip and
/CommunityCouncilGroup (which are NOT namespaces but just a page).

Most of the pages in the root namespace are of no concern to the
Edubuntu Wiki Cleanup Project.

Some are. Like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyAnnouncementEdubuntu
Luckily there are now very few of these pages in the wiki.

A Name Space is a part of the wiki under a certain URL, so everything
that is 'below' /Edubuntu is called the Edubuntu name space.

Currently, we have the following pages which are OUTSIDE of our namespace:

EdubuntuAddonEnhancements
EdubuntuAndItalcHardy
EdubuntuApplicationReview
EdubuntuAptMirror
EdubuntuArtwork
EdubuntuArtwork/DefaultDesktops
EdubuntuArtwork/Finals
EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
EdubuntuArtwork/Ubuntoon
EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
EdubuntuCDPrintingPlans
EdubuntuCdLabelAndSlip
EdubuntuChile
EdubuntuChile/LaunchPadLogo
EdubuntuChileArtwork
EdubuntuClassmatePC
EdubuntuClassmatePC/Applications/Taskid
EdubuntuClassroomLogoff
EdubuntuCommercialFeedback
EdubuntuCommunity
EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
EdubuntuContentServer
EdubuntuDHCPload-balancingFailover
EdubuntuDapperGoals
EdubuntuData
EdubuntuDefaultDesktopLanguage
EdubuntuDistupgrade
EdubuntuDriveImagingSpec
EdubuntuDynamicMenus
EdubuntuEdgyCDdiet
EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
EdubuntuEdgyLTSPFeatureIdeas
EdubuntuEdutainment
EdubuntuFAQ
EdubuntuHowto
EdubuntuIdeasForBoston
EdubuntuInstallations
EdubuntuInstalledApplications
EdubuntuInvitationArtwork
EdubuntuItalianTeam
EdubuntuK12LTSPFeatures
EdubuntuKDE
EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting
EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
EdubuntuLeaflet
EdubuntuLight
EdubuntuLoadBalancing
EdubuntuLogo
EdubuntuLtsConfParams
EdubuntuLtspWiring
EdubuntuMainInclusion
EdubuntuMassMaintenance
EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
EdubuntuMeetingRecords
EdubuntuMeetingRecords/Archive
EdubuntuNetworkAuthClient
EdubuntuNetworkAuthServer
EdubuntuOnTwoCDs
EdubuntuOneDotZeroRoadmap
EdubuntuPress
EdubuntuProxy
EdubuntuResetDesktopSession
EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
EdubuntuSchoolSupport
EdubuntuScreenShots
EdubuntuShippingPlans
EdubuntuSiteCollaborationTools
EdubuntuSiteFeatures
EdubuntuSiteOfficialContent
EdubuntuSoftware
EdubuntuSoftwareList
EdubuntuSoftwareList/es
EdubuntuSoftwareSurvey
EdubuntuSounds
EdubuntuStudyContent
EdubuntuStudyPackages
EdubuntuSummit
EdubuntuSummitGallerys
EdubuntuSummitNotes
EdubuntuTesting
EdubuntuTestingPlan
EdubuntuTestingTeam
EdubuntuUserManagement
EdubuntuViaNetBoot
EdubuntuVideoIntroduction
EdubuntuWebsitePlan
EdubuntuWikiCleanupEffort
EdubuntuWindowMaker
EdubuntuXfceDesktop

My goal is to MOVE all these pages to INSIDE the Edubuntu namespace and
ONLY LEAVE REDIRECTS IF IT"S REALLY NEEDED.

This 'moves' are already under heavy discussion. When a page is moved,
it gets a NEW url and the links to the OLD url will break. Of course
inside the wiki it's not a big problem, because we can find all inside
links very easy and repair them quickly. But external links we can't fix.

The way to NOT break the links, is to put a redirect in the old page
place. This is a wiki mechanism that displays the new page whenever
someone asks for the old page.

An example of a redirect: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList

So why not make redirects for all pages that you move then?
- well, glad you asked! These redirect pages stay in the wiki and turn
up in searches. So when you search for Edubuntu you would get all the
REAL pages plus all the REDIRECT pages, and this is quite a lot and
extremely confusing.

If there was a way to make sure redirect pages won't show up in a
search, that would be cool, but I think it has other ramifications that
are not positive.

What about Breaking links? Isn't that a concern?
- Let me try to answer that. Just look at EdubuntuWebsitePlan
(that is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan). It redirects to
a new location where I put that page. Now, assuming that the new
location is where we want that page, which we are discussing, but just
assume it, then why in Linus' name would we want to keep the old URL around?

The page says: "This is a draft page to get the Web Team started and
focussed. Feel free to edit. "

If you look at the Info on the page:
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan?action=info
then you'll see the last edit is 2006-12-19 by willvdl

So, how can we want this page to keep existing? What use would be a
redirect? What use would be to keep a unfinished draft of 2006 anyway?

Believe me, there are MANY pages like this. Drafts for Edgy, Proposals
from 2005, Instructions on software that doesn't exist anymore, and tons
of plans on how to restructure the wiki :-)

I want to weed these pages OUT of the wiki. And there's 4 ways I think:

A. DELETE the page
B. ARCHIVE the page and NO REDIRECT
C. MOVE the page and NO REDIRECT

These 3 really clean up the wiki

D. COPY the page and leave a REDIRECT on the old URL

This one does resctucture the wiki, but does not clean it up so much.
But it's necesary for some pages, pages that are actually in use.

Now, I got some people telling me they don't like A, B and C, and I
can't really agree with that.

Why do we need https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuKnot3LTSPTesting ?
I would say DELETE or ARCHIVE but in no case a redirect!

OKAY... THAT WAS HARD WASN'T IT! ON TO THE WIKISITE!

Okay, so why is there a WikiSite subnamespace?

Well, to do a cleanup of the /Edubuntu space, it's almost impossible not
to use some temporary holding space. I chose to create WikiSite
(arbitrary) and just started building the new structure under that.

Now it's not difficult to put stuff back into the Edubuntu namespace,
once that namespace is cleaned out. It's not trivial, but very well
doable and I am up to the task.

But why not leave the wikisite in there? It doesn't harm, does it?
Longer URL's are not really a concern, people are not learning the URL's
by heart? They just start at /Edubuntu and then should be able to find
everything, shouldn't they (it's not that way now!)?

And other projects don't do it this way? So what? If another project
would jump from a bridge.. ?

Google goes haywire? Come on, you should really know better. If there is
one thing adaptable it's Google's mind. Pure neuroplasticity.

So *my* choice would be to reorganize everything under WikiSite and then
later do some more work (thanks) and remove the WikiSite part, for
shorter URL's and greater peer-compliance. I don't mind to do the last
part - I think it's doable and looks nicer too.


I am looking forward to your reactions.


Cheers,
ace























































<PERSONAL GRUNT>
I hope this discussion will be over soon. I feel really held back. I
spent to much time explaining myself and I don't see others explaining
their decisions after every step. It's good to discuss and take away
concerns though. So I am opening myself up every time to whatever an
individual thinks or says. But I don't really like the way I am spoken
too. Please consider that I am 44 and have done a LOT of things in my
lifetime. I am not a 17 yr old enthusiast that needs to be reigned in.
Also, I feel it's individuals speaking and saying 'STOP WHAT YOU DO'.
I've been to two team meetings and no one spoke up on the subject.
That's not an attack on these individuals. It's a concern about the
Edubuntu decision making process.</PERSONAL GRUNT>









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