SV: VB: [SPAM] Re: multiple thin client servers

[Mattias Hemmingsson]

Hello !!

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: Knut Yrvin [mailto:knuty at skolelinux.no] 
Skickat: den 29 november 2006 10:25
Till: edubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
Kopia: Mattias Hemmingsson
Ämne: Re: VB: [SPAM] Re: multiple thin client servers

Thursday 23 November 2006 16:18, skrev Mattias Hemmingsson:
> But skolelinux don?t have any solution to cluster edu servers.
> And ltsp-mosix is too old to use.

What do you mean by "don't have any solution to cluster edu servers"?





---->I mean today nobody seams to have a solution to cluster edu server ..






Do edubuntu have Linux Virtual Server as default, and a path to administer
the 
system who a teacher with less computer skills are able to administer?

Linux Virtual Server is installable from Debian archive, and thereby 
accessible for Skolelinux users too. 

Skolelinux is extremely focused on easy of use when it comes to enterprise 
municipality wide installations. Our experience is that "server clustering" 
is more easy to do on service level. Letting services with heavy load run on

different machines. We are also investigating clustering LTSP-servers (for 
thin clients) doing load balancing with LTSP out of the box. 





-----> Nice A problem that I see if one edu server dies the clients die
		If you cluster servers another server steps in and the
system 
		Lives on.






Clustering is doable, but not recommendable for teachers or computer
operators 
with less or no prior knowledge of clustering (we are talking about 
municipality computer staff here, not a top notch Debian developer). 

Half thick clients (diskless) are also an important strategy. Today it's 
difficult to get reused machines with less than 800 MHz processor. Then it's

possible to connect 150 half thick clients to the schools server. Diskless 
PC's is better in handling movies, heavy flash animations etc. 

So my question. What operational and technical argument says that clustering

on server level give any vallue for a municipality with 800-2000 PC's?

I think you are recommending a solution that could be tough to administer
for 
an average municipality computer staff, running GNU/Linux on 10-20 schools. 
The Ministry of Education and Science in Norway paid 100,000 Euro to collect

experiences with large deployments of GNU/Linux systems. English version:  

http://developer.skolelinux.no/artikler/2006-04-02-debconf6.pdf

The other issue is use of memory. Real life use shows that Xfce and GNOME 
desktop uses more memory than KDE as a window manager (with end user 
programs): 

http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/

After my knowledge this practical fact, makes it possible to connect 50-70 
thin clients to a 4 GB server with the KDE based Skolelinux. After what I've

read there are recommended to install 30 thin clients with Edubuntu. Xfce 
does start fast, but it uses more memory than both Gnome and KDE in real 
life. KDE uses less memory than GNOME. 



----> this is always the problem. Computer people always looks for the fast
solutions. Fast OS that don’t look very nice. 
	Why do a run xubuntu on my laptop? For its fast. 
	Why do people by ipod ??
	FOR THE DESIGN not because it’s the best. KDE is faster but does it
look and feel better than Gnome?
	I don’t think so that’s why a use Gnome.
	









For a school that wanna reuse a lot of thin client machines from 1995 until 
2001 (160 MHz - 500 MHz  CPU), they need to use almost twice as much
servers. 
Our calculation, shows that this could double the amount of servers - just
by 
choosing a more memory intensive software. 

> To cluster server I'm looking at LVS to load balance the servers.
> And then Webmin to cluster the server so package and shell scripts are the
> same on all servers.

After what I've heard Webin is not maintained in Debian main. Oliver wrote 
that he expect no admin tool to run in a web-server on Edubuntu. The tools 
need to both run as a KDE and GNOME application. 




-------> i want to admin my mail ,ldap, www servers from one interface.	
		Not from the terminal. That’s why webmin works for me.
		Is there any other system to do this please tell me and a
will 		change.
		  





So to sum it up Mattias:
- You are recommending tools that is not maintained. Is that wise on 
  solutions with 5-10 years life span?

------> YES ! No it's not wise if its dies after 5 years.


- You are recommending technical complex solution that could be to hard 
  to implement for an average computer operator at municipality level. 
  Does this help when convincing municipalities to switch from 
  Windows to GNU/Linux?


-----> YES its complex.
-----> No it won't help convincing today.
		But it clustering servers was easy then dam it would




My worries: The complexity and non maintained packages will stop or hinder 
deployment of Edubuntu and Skolelinux, because the municipality staff then 
believes Windows server is more easy to use. Then they roll out Citrix that 
gives 3-4 times higher operational cost than thin clients on GNU/Linux. 



-----> skolinux is good and i think together with edu. It’s the only
solutions that can compete against Windows in schools.
	But what a miss is a nice admin interface like clarkconnect webadmin
interface.
	Then a need to cluster systems so that you can load balance the
workload.
	(and that’s al a want for x-mas)

 	
The descriptions of my system its not the WAY that everyone should go.
But it's my path today to fix MY problems.
I'm only trie to help.
It anyone don’t thinks its good and that am stupid its okay.

But a must do something until someone present the "SYSTEM".

// matte 

 


Best regards

Knut Yrvin


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