Core Dev Application - Questions/Voting Thread

Fri Nov 10 10:27:26 UTC 2017

Ok, I think it's time to start the voting procedure. Let's see how it
goes and afterwards, if unsuccessful, decide if we should maybe
re-evaluate Balint's application to MOTU instead.

Please vote +1, +0 or -1 on Balint Reczey's application to become
Ubuntu Core Developer.

On 7 November 2017 at 10:58, Robie Basak <robie.basak at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hi Balint,
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 05:36:46PM +0200, Balint Reczey wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Robie Basak <robie.basak at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> > I realise that others on your team may know you better and thus have
>> > more out-of-band knowledge in considering your application, which is
>> > fine. For me though, I think that your application as written falls
>> > short of general expectations.
>>
>> Before applying I made sure that I met every requirement listed for
>> Core Dev [1],
>> but I'm sorry if I'm failing to meet general expectations. If you
>> could provide clear guidance about the general expectation and
>> quantify to amount of work I should devote to showing my knowledge I
>> would really appreciate that.
>
> Sorry I haven't yet replied to this until now. I have felt that I owed
> you a complete and detailed answer as I explained when I met you in
> person in late September. Unfortunately I haven't been in one place for
> very long since your email and so have found it difficult to catch up
> with everything I'm blocking something on while being on the road, and
> writing this up as fully as I think you are owed took quite some time.
>
> I've written this from the point of view of the situation at the time of
> your application in September to try and explain my reasoning as it was
> then. Given the length of your involvement in Ubuntu, I appreciate that
> the past two additional months is a significant additional amount of
> time proportionally, and the situation may well have changed now. I
> invite you to update us and your application with anything new if you
> can and haven't done so already.
>
>
> Applying for core dev is, I think, somewhat special. We don't have any
> process for removing someone from core dev. A DMB decision to grant core
> dev is effectively permanent and it is important that we don't make a
> mistake in doing so. I'm sorry that your experience of this application
> hasn't been great, but please understand that your request is to jump in
> at the deep end, that this is fairly exceptional and that the DMB isn't
> very used to handling this. I expect to hold any core dev applicant to a
> higher standard than an applicant to any of the other uploading teams;
> for an applicant requesting to go to core dev directly, even more so.
>
> In your case, I haven't seen any technical shortcomings about your work
> that would give me reservations about granting you core dev. However, I
> feel that I have a very small sample on which to base a core dev
> application with regards to Ubuntu-specific work, as opposed to one of
> the other uploading teams where I am less demanding.
>
> In my view, a cultural fit is also important. I want to be confident
> that decisions you make as a core dev won't upset other developers.
> Technical disagreements themselves are to be expected, of course; it is
> how Ubuntu developers proceed in the face of a disagreement that I think
> is important. And for Canonical employees, understanding and being able
> to negotiate the distinction between Ubuntu governance and Canonical
> priorities is particularly important. And these are also factors on
> which I have little evidence to draw any conclusion.
>
> I appreciate that doing work in Debian where possible is the right thing
> to do, that you generally do this well, and that doing the right thing
> in this way can seemingly make it difficult to gain the necessary
> experience in Ubuntu-specific processes in order to meet the
> requirements for an Ubuntu uploader application. However the DMB
> generally works on a "need to unblock" principle. If fewer uploads to
> Ubuntu are needed because uploading to Debian is preferred, then by
> definition those uploads weren't blocking on not being an Ubuntu
> uploader. The DMB will focus on what _is_ blocking, rather than what
> isn't, and considers applications on that basis.
>
>
> From a technical perspective, I'd expect a core dev to have:
>
> A thorough understanding and experience in Debian packaging. I have yet
> to look in detail, but it seems that this won't be a problem for you,
> especially with Steve's endorsement :-)
>
> A demonstrated understanding of Ubuntu-specific processes such as Ubuntu
> package merges, SRUs, the release cycle, milestones and exceptions,
> proposed migration, the main/universe distinction, MIRs and component
> mismatches, handling transitions, and the operation of the seeds. I
> don't necessarily expect detailed direct experience in all of these, but
> I do expect to see direct and deep experience of at least some of them
> and a general understanding of most of them.
>
> In addition I would expect a core dev applicant to either: (a) be an
> already experienced Ubuntu uploader through one of the other uploading
> teams such as a packageset or MOTU; or (b) present an exceptionally
> strong application to go direct to core dev. In the case of (a), the
> previous upload history will allow me to assess the application in
> detail. Failing that, a string of sponsorships and endorsements from a
> wide range of existing uploaders that includes some respected names
> would give me confidence in (b). Without either (a) or (b), I don't have
> enough to give me the confidence in approving an application that I
> think I need.
>
> In your case, as you are in the Foundations team at Canonical, I don't
> think (a) really makes sense for you, as there is no other uploading
> team suitable for the work you do. So for you it must be (b). But there
> are some ways in which I think your application is quite weak at the
> moment; both in your application itself and also in your presence in the
> Ubuntu development community:
>
> You have only one and a half endorsements (Steve only speaks to your
> technical skills and specifically excludes Ubuntu-specific processes and
> sponsorships into Ubuntu) and none from anyone who isn't on your team at
> Canonical. People tend not to give negative endorsements; instead they
> generally decline to give an endorsement. So a lack of endorsements can
> mean one of two things: 1) your peers don't think you should get core
> dev because they don't think you're suitable; or 2) your peers aren't
> negative but either haven't got round to endorsing you or haven't had
> enough experience with your work to endorse you. Note that the DMB
> cannot tell the difference between the two cases just by looking at a
> tiny number of endorsements. Help us by getting a wider range of
> endorsements! For a core dev application, especially for jumping
> straight to core dev, I think you should aim for five (though I do
> weight them based on who is endorsing, how diverse they are and how
> positive they are).
>
> Usually, by the time someone applies for core dev, DMB members who are
> still active in Ubuntu development have already interacted with them
> extensively. I barely see you interacting with other developers in
> #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-release at all. I don't see a single email to
> ubuntu-devel@ or ubuntu-release@ from you ever. This makes a decision
> challenging for me: how do I know that your future interactions with
> other developers, particularly in the face of some technical
> disagreement, will be positive?
>
> Six months with active and heavy involvement in general Ubuntu
> development might be enough to demonstrate direct experience of the
> release cycle; six months involvement in Ubuntu development in total
> with seemingly little involvement does not. So it isn't that six months
> isn't enough; it is that in your specific case, you don't seem to have
> been involved enough in general Ubuntu development[1] that I have seen to
> give me confidence that you have this knowledge or experience.
>
> So right now, though I appreciate your technical skills, my vote is -1
> for your application as I'd like to see more involvement and evidence of
> Ubuntu-specific processes. I appreciate your contributions and would
> like to see you get core dev eventually, but I don't think there's
> enough evidence in this application as it stands right now.
>
> Here are some objective actions I think you could take to change my
> mind:
>
> 1) Activity in Ubuntu-specific development tasks, such as some items
> from my list above, and an update to your application wiki page that
> make these items explicitly evident; 2) Public collaboration with
> existing Ubuntu developers; 3) Endorsements from existing uploaders for
> the previous items.
>
> Given the strength of Steve's endorsement on your techncial ability, I
> think that a cycle's worth of significant contribution covering
> Ubuntu-specific development tasks would be far more than enough. But I
> don't see anything even close to that on your application right now. Am
> I missing something?
>
> I hope this helps, and I hope that I'll be able to +1 you for core dev
> soon :)
>
> Robie
>
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-- 
Łukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak
 Foundations Team
 lukasz.zemczak at canonical.com
 www.canonical.com