Anyone using Explorer together with bzr-svn?

Russel Winder russel.winder at concertant.com
Sun Mar 7 08:18:19 GMT 2010


Ian,

On Sun, 2010-03-07 at 15:05 +1000, Ian Clatworthy wrote:
> In theory, bzr-svn means that all our clients ought to be able to be
> used with svn branches. Is anyone doing that regularly?

I am not using Bazaar Explorer as regularly as I should, but I have some
data/opinions on bzr-svn usage that might help.  Also I took a few
minutes to do some experiments for you.

Also there is bzr-git which is in the same category as bzr-svn and
mostly similar workflows.

> If so:
> 
> * Does it work with a svn checkout local?

Pass, I no longer have any local Subversion checkouts :-)

Actually I just did an "svn co" of a Subversion repository I normally
use Git to work with and then "bzr explorer ." in the checkout and it
started the cache creation and indeed after a relatively extensive
"greyed out" period seemed to provide a view on the checkout.  Log
appeared to do the right thing -- again though there was an extensive
"greyed out" period.

> * Or only with a remote svn branch converted on the fly to a bzr
>   branch/checkout locally?

I tried "bzr explorer <URL of remote Subversion repository>" and it
seemed to behave as above.  Except there was no working tree -- which
seems entirely reasonable.  Log works fine.  I guess I should try a
pull?

> * Do you use bound branches?

Definitely.  My usual workflow is to have a bound branch as a mirror of
the remote Subversion repository.  This is in a shared repository with
all the feature branches and maintenance branches.  Feature branches are
local only, maintenance branches are bound into the Subversion
repository.  I have no idea if this is optimal workflow but it works for
me.

I guess the tension is whether the maintenance branches (and indeed
mainline mirror) should be bound or not.  I have flip-flopped on this as
different people influence me.  Currently I am in the camp of "I want my
Bazaar mirror branches to be guaranteed as mirrors of the remote
material at all times".

> * If not, do you need to dpush and if so, how are you doing that
>   from the GUI?

I no longer use dpush with Bazaar branches of Subversion repository
material, I only use commit/update on bound branches.

> * Should we enhance the Push dialog to support dpush? If so,
>   what changes to the UI are required?

Pass.

I am at the stage where a Subversion repository is a place to store
Bazaar branches, so dpush isn't really an issue for me.

> What else could we add to explorer to make it a better svn client?
> For example, would it be good if Explore > System Information showed the
> Subversion installation details? Also, how transparent is 'bzr ignore'
> usage in this setup?

The single biggest problem I had with my colleagues using RapidSVN and
other such tools is that they got hugely confused by the fact that they
were given a representation of the remote repository and had to make
their own local checkout manually.  Generally they didn't, they used the
remote repository directly.  This of course led to serious performance
issues about which they grumbled hugely -- using it as an argument
against using Subversion at all.

After a while (and a lot of hassle from me :-) they eventually got the
idea of local vs. remote and that remote was for reading and that local
was for reading/writing/uploading.

I think my point is that the presentation by the user interface drives
the user model far more than the real model underneath.  Being given a
rendering of the remote repository gave people the model that it was
usable.

Hopefully I am making sense with this. 

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      Partner
                                            xmpp: russel at russel.org.uk
Concertant LLP        t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203
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London SW11 1EN, UK   m: +44 7770 465 077   skype: russel_winder
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