Info Q article on DVCS - a request and some feedback
seb.auvray at gmail.com
Mon May 12 20:31:57 BST 2008
Sorry for my late answer, I was away.
Your feed back is very much appreciated. I just did a first update of the
article accordingly (also with the comments I saw around). Actually I wanted
to send the article to the three vcs maintainers, but I guess I would have
had to remodel everything again, then new versions are out, new features,
updates needed, benchmarks needs to be replayed (infinite loop)... It's been
already a lot of time to gather all this piece of information, reading,
playing with the three, chatting, and doing those benchmarks (I had this
article idea since February...).
Concerning your request & feedback.
- You'll find the exact git / hg / bzr repositories I used available at
http://seb.auvray.free.fr/dvcs-bench-repo/. I applied the dummy diff (on
dom/src/base/nsDOMClassInfo.cpp) you'll find at the end of this mail*. The
bzr repository is the same as the one you sent to me when I was having
problem using the fast-import plugin (
I had also produced same one while testing your fix.
1 - Ok
2 - Ok
3 - I need to check this.
4 - Yes, I missed that one (also read about it in reedit comments)
5 - I need to check this. The feedbacks I had/read about git/hg web were
6 - I didn't know about Loggerhead.
7 - Yes, some were also advised in reedit comments. I cannot find anything
about bzr-ahavi though (typo ?).
8 - Indeed I must have swapped the linux/windows for Tortoise, still 1) it's
a pain to install it, 2) the launchpad project shows no activity since
2007-08-30 which sounds weird regarding the way to install it (that needs
work) and the features that were made available in bzr since then. Thanks
for the link to the documentation that indeed shows you're still working on
this. Is there anyway to see how it is evolving (any public launchpad
9 - Ok, will give Wildcat BZR a try asap.
10 - Ok for this work around.
11 - Interesting link. I put git-svn ahead as I had good feedbacks from it
contrary to bzr-svn. I didn't play with it myself that much.
12 - No I didn't use shared repository but this locally:
bzr clone mozilla.bzr/master/
Some remarks: I know *clone* is no bzr command but an alias for *branch*.
What I wanted to test was the basic cloning (> *xxx clone a b*) without the
network protocol overhead (in case *a* would be http://...)
Concerning the BzrVs* pages, I find them definitely useful and you guys in
the business are the ones who can best compare each other (knowing
implementations, details, ...). But from the answers from Mercurial we could
see it was biased (model chosen critics, implementation choice...) and not
always up-to-date (renaming for hg is fixed (still not for git), merge
architecture (only external tools which is not true since 1.0 version),...).
You also should notice that I kept some points from it in my article and it
also enriched the comparison.
Thanks again for your feedback!
@@ -41,7 +41,10 @@
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Ian Clatworthy <
ian.clatworthy at canonical.com> wrote:
> Hi Sebastien,
> Well done on your InfoQ article re DVCS tools. It looks quite well
> researched and well written. If you're interested, I'd like to provide
> some more information on Bazaar. Perhaps it's worth updating the article
> to reflect this?
> First though, can I make a request? Can you make the exact git, hg and
> bzr repos you used available? I'd like to run some more performance
> tests using them. More on this at the end of this email.
> OK, some feedback on the comparison table you presented:
> 1. bzr EOL conversion support is under active development by me.
> My hope is that Bazaar will support this in 1.6. (We're
> packaging the 1.5rc tomorrow so it will miss that.)
> 2. Partial checkout support is also planned. See
> 3. Per file commit. You can record per file commit messages,
> in addition to the overall commit message, using bzr-gtk.
> 4. Rebase/Queues. These are both really well supported by Bazaar
> plugins. See http://bazaar-vcs.org/Rebase,
> http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2008/04/01/bzr-loom/ and
> 5. Web access. Bazaar is every bit as good as git and hg here. In fact,
> it's far easier to set up static serving over http using Bazaar than
> Git. Static http serving is also *much* faster in bzr than in hg.
> I suspect bzr is quicker than Git here as well (given our smaller
> repo size for many projects) though I'm yet to measure that.
> 6. I agree that gitweb and hgweb are currently ahead of bzr's options.
> Loggerhead - you didn't include that in your table - is pretty good
> though if a bit annoying to set up.
> 7. Under cool extensions, you should mention shelf - part of BzrTools.
> (I believe it's directly comparable with git-stash.) bzr-dbus and
> bzr-ahavi are also really cool for hackers when sprinting.
> 8. TortoiseBzr is a Windows tool, not a Linux one. It is currently under
> active development. See
> 9. Before Tortoise matures, WildcatBZR is probably the best option
> right now for an integrated GUI. It's been tested on OS X and XP
> and ought to run on Linux as well. See
> 10. Submodules are supported in Bazaar by a related tools called
> ConfigManager. See http://bazaar-vcs.org/3rdPartyTools. This
> is a common need and we don't cover it yet in the User Guide.
> I need to address that soon.
> 11. In the Migration section (which probably should be called
> Interoperability instead?), I'm curious as to why you marked
> Bazaar down versus the competition. We believe bzr-svn is actually
> the leading option here. See
> Performance. Thanks for your benchmarking. I'm particularly curious
> about the clone figures though: most of my benchmarking puts Bazaar
> clone ahead of git clone. Did you use a shared repository? I'd be happy
> to repeat your tests (and expand them) using a shared repo if you make
> the hg and git repos you used available. I've also expanded
> http://bazaar-vcs.org/Benchmarks to include a place to reference
> independent benchmarks of Bzr vs Git vs Hg performance. Please feel free
> to add your article there.
> So what section. I'd be very happy to update the BzrVsGit and BzrVsHg
> pages on our Wiki if you'd point out which bits are incorrect. These
> pages aren't there to "bash" the competition: they are there to point
> out our strengths, and to provide links we can point (the never ending
> stream of) people to whom ask us why they ought to use Bazaar. As well
> as being the right thing to do ethically, it's absolutely in our
> interest to ensure those pages are defensible. Please help us by
> pointing out explicitly why you think they are "not-all-true".
> Ian C.
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