08:16 < abentley> Better phrasing: 'what circumstances should cause us to produce a working tree in a repository branch'?

[Denys Duchier]

Aaron Bentley <aaron.bentley at utoronto.ca> writes:

> Standalone:
> bzr branch foo

hmm... how would I create an empty standalone branch?

> Starting work on a new repository branch:
> bzr create-repository repo
> bzr branch foo repo/bar
> bzr checkout repo/bar

ok, so you have 3 verbs and I have 1 verb and 3 nouns, and in both cases they
are formed from the same 4 lexemes.  I think it is easier to remember just the
one verb and then lookup the nouns using it as an entry point.  On the other
hand, your verbs are quicker to type (except the 1st one), but I think that's
what aliases are for.  So, color me "unconvinced" by your rebuttal.

with:

	bzr branch foo repo/bar

is foo the existing branch and repo/bar the one to create?  What happens when
foo is using a different repo?

> Starting work using ~ as a repo (ugh):
> bzr create-repository ~ --allow-trees

what does --allow-trees do?

> bzr branch foo

I suspect this is not supposed to create a standalone branch eventhough the
exact same command earlier was.  This lacks referential transparency and will
cause no end of grief.  I think it would be better to always require an explicit
--standalone option when a standalone branch is desired.

> At work, our product has extensive, narrative help, but many people
> would rather phone or write us than read it.  So we certainly find that
> longer help is less likely to be read.

I am sure you are right (I had much the same experience with colleagues
constantly coming into my office because it is so much easier (on them) to ask
me than to read the darn documentation).  So maybe there should be no
documentation, so I could just say: "I don't know! not a clue! sorry!".

All joking aside, I frequently want more extensive help - for example to be
reminded of the many syntaxes accepted by --revision.  It's a nuisance to have
to look at the source code to figure it out. - And I would really like ALL
commands to offer examples when asked for verbose help.  Some commands have help
that's no help at all, like "resolve": what is it for and what the heck does it
do? don't answer, I know this, but it's not obvious if you have no prior clue
and the terse help does nothing to remedy your ignorance. etc...

> So here, we're definitely differing on what constitutes a command.  I'd
> claim that creating an empty repository is a unique command, whether
> it's phrased as "bzr create-repository" or "bzr create --repository".

I think you are influenced in this by your perspective as an implementor.
Consider the act of "reading": there are vast differences in the act of reading
a novel and that of reading a comic book, but there is also an essential
commonality of enterprise.  Giving them different names would probably not be
that helpful (at least, not to the general public).

> So in this case, your suggestion of 'store' would be a verb, but
> probably one with the wrong connotations :-)

Definitely wrong, yes :-)  I have no alternative to suggest at the moment.

Cheers,

--Denys