Questions: why for pycrypto needed?

[John Arbash Meinel]

James Blackwell wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 01:53:38PM -0600, John Arbash Meinel wrote:
> 
>>Alexander Belchenko wrote:
>>
>>>John Arbash Meinel пишет:
>>>I probably miss something about bzr. On newly added page in wiki:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrInstallation I read that bzr want
>>>>>pycrypto package. Is there some new features is coming?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Paramiko requires pycrypto. And bzr requires paramiko for sftp support.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm probably bore man. But pycrypto mentioned in top 3 must have things
>>>for bzr. Paramiko mentioned later in 'strongly recommended' section. My
>>>brain did not build bridge between paramiko and pycrypto. So, my first
>>>thought was: 'wow, to bzr added new cool features?'
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>Alexander
>>
>>Well, James Blackwell was the one who wrote the page. So before I fix it
>>up, I'd like to know what he was thinking.
>>Basically, I would move it from Required into Strongly Recommended.
> 
> 
> I hear you guys. I think your concern lays in two areas; that it express
> more dependancies that we need and that it complicates install more than
> is necessary. I respect these motivations. 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell cygwin still relies on pycrypto being there when
> using sftp. All of the installs I've supervised, including the one at the
> beginning of this week, ultimately failed during use when pycrypto was not
> installed.

All platforms require pycrypto when using sftp, because paramiko
requires pycrypto as its SSH/SSL implementation.

> 
> If this is in error, then please remove that as quick as possible. If it
> isn't in error, can it be made into one?  I say this because pycrypto
> seems to not be in Cygwin for export restrictions.
> 
> 
>>Also, cElementTree is only Strongly Recommended. Though it is very
>>strongly recommended for performance reasons. (10x faster for reading
>>XML than elementtree).
> 
> 
> I think useless if you don't is practically a requirement. In my
> experience most users are human thusly inherently lazy. I believe, with
> experience, that users underrate requirements. Strongly recommended turns
> into "install this first if it breaks". Recommended turns into "stuff I'll
> play with in six months from now" and suggested is "stuff I'll never need"
> 
> Many windows users are not comfortable with extentensive command line
> work, though they seem happy to keep a shell open just to run bzr
> commands. Among the set of those that are familiar with cygwin, fewer
> still are familiar with python installs.

I would say the standard Windows install comes with most of the
dependencies, and just runs as a py2exe application.
I have a setup.py script lying around somewhere that can take a
distutils script, and create a standalone (+library) executable, and
then even create an Installer using InnoSetup. (It should be possible
with NSIS, I just didn't have that example when I was putting it together).

> 
> It seems more productive to me if users can take their medice one time so
> that they can use bzr. I see these possibilities:
> 
>  * They mistakenly believe that the behaviour that they experience without
>    celementree is standard and throw it away as being unrunnably slow.
>    They either:
>      * Slog it through and suffer unnecessarily
> 
>      * Throw it away for something else
> 
>  * They start hitting mailing lists, asking other users and reading more
>    docs to see how they can find out how to make the speed better. This
>    cascades into three possibilities:
> 
>      * Swear up and down that they've got to do all of that mystical
>        python crap.. again.. for a tool that has already let them down
>        when it comes to performance and walk away
> 
>      * Shrug and install celementree anyways.
> 
> Out of of the four possibilities I see, half of them are failures and one
> is a disservice. A 75% failure-to-satisfy rate is a steep cost for praying
> at the alter of strict honesty -- especially when this module is already
> installed on half of the systems out there and trival to install on the
> other half (even in cygwin)
> 

I don't really care. The biggest one is that pycrypto should be a
dependency for paramiko. And sure, cElementTree makes bzr much more
useful on medium to large projects, so leave it as a required
dependency. (It is tiny anyway).

John
=:->

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